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S2E48 · Mormon Battalion Part 4
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Standard of Truth · Season 2 · Episode 48 · 1:06:33

Mormon Battalion Part 4

President Polk told Jesse Little he trusted the Mormons as good citizens, then wrote in his diary that he called the Battalion only to keep them from becoming enemies, and ordered that they make up no more than a quarter of the command.

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The question ·
I have heard all my life that Abraham Lincoln was one of those that appeared to Wilford Woodruff in the St. George temple, requesting his temple work to be done. Did this really happen?
Jeff (listener)

After music talk and the email-inventor mailbag, Richard reads Jeff's question about whether Abraham Lincoln appeared to Wilford Woodruff in the St. George Temple. Gerrit reads Woodruff's 1877 journal and 1898 conference talk: the signers of the Declaration and other eminent men appeared, and the presidents whose work was held back were Van Buren, Buchanan and Grant, not Lincoln. Then he finishes the Mormon Battalion story. Polk's diary shows he called the Battalion to keep the Saints from becoming enemies, not because he trusted them, and Erastus Snow suspected a plot. Gerrit closes by honoring the Battalion members, who marched simply because a prophet asked them to.

Who comes upWilford WoodruffAbraham LincolnMartin Van BurenJames BuchananUlysses S. GrantJohn WesleyJames K. PolkJesse C. LittleBrigham YoungStephen W. KearnyErastus SnowEliza R. Snow
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Gerrit finally gives Richard his due title, and they promise the final Battalion episode.

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Intro Welcome to the Standard of Truth Podcast, hosted by historian Dr. Gerrit Dirkmaat, where we explore the early days of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and gain rare historical insights into how a young farm boy was able to establish a new church and grow it by way of visions, manifestations and miracles.
Richard Miracles.
Gerrit Hi, welcome to another episode of the Standard of Truth podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Gerrit Dirkmaat, and I'm joined by my friend, ABD professor, Richard LeDuc.
Richard Thank you, Gerrit. I appreciate you throwing a little respect on it. When, when-
Gerrit Well, last episode, you called yourself doctor. I did, I did call myself that. I feel like if I don't start giving you the props you deserve-
Richard I will take it. No man take it this honor unto himself.
Gerrit Except for anyone who's an ABD.
Richard That's right. So, in this episode, we're going to conclude the, our Mormon battalion story that Gerrit's been telling.
Gerrit The yarn that I've been spinning.
Richard That he's been spinning. But before we, before we get to that final Mormon battalion episode-
Gerrit You're making it sound almost like, it's a chore, like, we've all been laboring under the fact that this wasn't a polygamy episode. And-
Richard No, it's, it's interesting. So the, the, the, you, you've been, you've been teasing along, and now we're gonna get to, the, the culmination is James K. Polk's journal entry. That's the payoff.
Gerrit Oh, when we get there. I remember when I first read James Polk's journal, when I was researching for my dissertation. And when I read those words on it, I was like, all right, now I've got another president to hate. Not that I have a list of, you want to look, Van Buren.
Richard Well, actually we're going to, speaking of presidents we hate. So this is the Ray Tomlinson or possibly VA. Shiva Ayyaduri mailbag. Wow.
Gerrit Wow.
Richard So that's the inventor or possible inventor of email. So-
Gerrit Which is disputed apparently.
Richard It is disputed. And so Shiva is, he's a litigious gentleman. Found the lawsuit in 2017, so wanted to make sure that I gave him credit in case-
Gerrit In case he's listening to random Mormon podcasts that make no money at all, even though we receive cease and desist letters from the Apocrypha band.
Richard Yes, that's right. That's right.
Gerrit Or was it Satan's Molecules?
Richard I've looked, Satan's Molecules I can't find. They might be more obscure than the Apocrypha band.
Gerrit Maybe they do a cover for the Apocrypha.
Richard Yeah, I'm sure they do. It's just all Hall and Oates covers.
Gerrit Oh, it's all, yeah.
Richard Thrash metal, Hall and Oates.
Gerrit It's all thrash metal and the best of bread. It's got to do both ends of the spectrum.
Richard My mom loves the band Bread.
Gerrit On the bright side, she doesn't listen to this podcast.
Richard Well, if she does, then shout out to Debbie LeDuc and the band Bread.
Gerrit We're listening to some Melissa Manchester right before we do it.
Richard So yeah, we listen to music before every podcast and it ranges all over the place.
Gerrit We grab, and what's funny is that multiple times, I'll play a song that I assume literally everyone who's ever been born on earth knows. And then Richard will say, what is that song?
Richard I've got some gaps, I've got some gaps in my.
Gerrit Your discography.
Richard Well, so anything from 1998 to 2000.
Gerrit Well, mission, sure.
Richard Yeah, so late 98 to late 2000.
Gerrit He's just saying that because he's trying to convince you he wasn't listening to unapproved music on his mission. Who are you trying to kid?
Richard Well, so that's a gap. And then.
Gerrit Andrew, in case you're listening to this.
Richard You shouldn't be. I think he got permission, didn't he? No, so it's one of those things where you can't listen to podcasts, but if your dad makes a recording and sends it to you, that's different.
Gerrit See, so you are helping your son break the mission rules.
Richard Well, no, I mean, you can't believe how many times he's gotten, just in the short couple months he's been out, Mormon Battalion comes up in Spain all the time.
Gerrit Well, I mean, look, Spain used to be the colonial overlord of Mexico, it only makes sense that, yeah. No, I actually, it probably comes up more often than, you know, baptism or faith.
Richard Yeah, so going back to Gerrit's comment, I listened, my mom was an easy listening person, I was the oldest person, and so I didn't have older siblings that were listening to Gerrit's hair metal music in the early 80s. And so we listened to a lot of carpenters, a lot of bread, a lot of soft sounds of the 70s and early 80s.
Gerrit Well, so in trying to play to Richard's taste, I played a Melissa Manchester song.
Richard Yeah, which I'm very familiar with.
Gerrit Which, don't cry out loud.
Richard Yeah, we were singing at the top of our lungs.
Gerrit Yeah, we had tears coming down our eyes. My wife, Angie, she'd never heard of it. She'd never heard that song, and I was like, you're kidding, right? And apparently she was serious, she's like, yeah, my, essentially I think she said in a nice way, in a way only Angie could say it, but my parents were cooler than your parents, so we listened to better music? Is that kinda what you mean?
Richard That's pretty much, yeah. Anyway, back to the email. Subject, Abraham Lincoln Temple Work. I love The Witnesses Project, and all the short videos published after the Undaunted film.
Gerrit That's through the Interpreter Foundation, if you're wondering. They did that movie on the Witnesses, and then they did a documentary, which featured some historians that may or may not be broadcasting this podcast right now, at least as one of them, and so we did some video clips for that as well.
Richard I don't remember being in the film.
Gerrit Well, because ABD. Oh, that's great. Yeah, they only wanted actual, if you don't have your PhD in business in hand, we don't wanna hear from you.
Richard When I came upon the Standard of Truth podcast, I was an instant fan. I have started at the beginning, and I'm working my way up to present. I just finished the Abraham Lincoln episodes. They bring to mind a question. I have heard all my life that Abraham Lincoln was one of those that appeared to Wilford Woodruff in the St. George temple, requesting his temple work to be done. Did this really happen? This has been Jeff. Thank you, Jeff, for the kind email.
Gerrit So where do we start?
Richard Well, let's talk about presidents that didn't make the list. That's a more, that's a fun, that's a game that's more fun.
Gerrit So I actually had this question once in class. I was talking about this and a student was reading the account and they came up to me after class and they were actually pretty concerned about it. They said, I just don't understand this. It just doesn't feel right to me. I mean, the two presidents that were not, didn't have their temple work done, probably won't surprise our listeners to know that it was Martin Van Buren of Your Cause is Just and I Can Do Nothing for You and James Buchanan of I Send an Army Out to Utah and that's the Utah War, right? The occupation of Utah with James Buchanan. And then the third one was Ulysses S. Grant.
Richard I don't remember hearing anything about the problem that church had with Ulysses S.
Gerrit Well, so there really are some problems because it is during Grant's administration that there are multiple anti-Mormon bills that are-
Richard But other than that.
Gerrit Yeah, other than the-
Richard The myriad of anti-Mormon bills passed.
Gerrit Other than the government passing laws?
Richard I almost, I almost, that's kind of like, I don't know. They call it, it's just the Tuesday.
Gerrit It's kind of like when Oregon fans chant certain profane chants directed at our religion. That's also just Tuesday to you?
Richard It's just a regular Tuesday. So Gerrit and I both being from Idaho and when the Idaho Constitution was written, they disenfranchised Mormons from voting.
Gerrit Latter-day Saints were not allowed voting rights in Idaho and that Constitution was ratified by all but one vote in the Congress. So our American government said, you know what's okay? Disenfranchising every person who belongs to this religion because we said so.
Richard And that's where we're from and we love Idaho.
Gerrit Yeah, we love Idaho. Well, only because we're not allowed to vote there. So we don't ever have to get into the politics. That's been changed though. Just so you know, you can vote as a Mormon.
Richard 2008.
Gerrit Yeah, what was it? 2021, Mormons were allowed to vote again. I don't know. It was much earlier than that. But that.
Richard So Ulysses S.
Gerrit Grant. Yeah, so the last question, he said, I just don't understand. Now, of course, this student and frankly, most of us really only know Ulysses S. Grant for a couple reasons. One, he's a drunk. I think that's the one that first comes to mind, right?
Richard That's one.
Gerrit I mean, cause you know the old adage from Abraham Lincoln, right? That this is an apocryphal story. So, I mean, this is someone saying that Lincoln said this, but.
Richard Apocryphal story. The band, the thrash metal band tells this story.
Gerrit Well, the one that we're no longer talking about, but we're using Satan's molecules as a filling. But there's an apocryphal story that because Grant is so widely known to be given to drink, that there are some teetotaling very religious aspects of the Union. I mean, look, the abolitionist movement in the North is driven, I mean, in huge measure by evangelical Christianity that just sees slavery as a sin. And since it's a sin, you gotta get rid of it. Well, guess what else is a sin? Drinking, and so you have the early temperance, which will later become the prohibitionist movement. And so they actually try to get Lincoln, at least again, according to the story, they try to get Lincoln to depose Grant just to remove him from his position because how can you have some drunk man commanding all the armies in the West because that was the Western theater that Grant was in charge of.
Gerrit And Lincoln's response, again, apocryphal is supposedly something along the lines of find out what type of whiskey Grant drinks and send it to all of my other generals. I cannot spare this man. He fights. And so maybe not the first thing you think about Ulysses S. Grant, aside from his name. I mean, Ulysses, I bet Elder Suarez likes it, but is that he was the great general of the Civil War who defeated Lee. I think that's how most people think of him. And so that's what this student's question was, was, well, I mean, why is it the great, I just don't feel good about the fact that the great leader of the Union Army, the one that defeated the South and ended slavery, is Grant, and they wouldn't do his temple work for him. I then had to inform the student that it would have been very difficult to do Grant's temple work since Grant was still alive, and that will put a damper on your work for the dead.
Gerrit So the only way they were getting Grant in that font was if he was alive, or if they sent a Danite band out to do the supposed dirty work of the Mormons. So yeah, so those are the three that are not directly not baptized.
Richard But they were later, they were later.
Gerrit And yeah, Grant will eventually die. Spoiler alert.
Richard Not just Grant, but also Buchanan and Van Buren. Their work was also done for them.
Gerrit Just not initially. But this is a pretty cool experience that we can actually read from Wilford Woodruff's journal. They're on churchofjesuschrist.org through the church history catalog. August 21st, 1877. I, Wilford Woodruff, went to the temple of the Lord this morning and was baptized for 100 persons who were dead, including the signers of the Declaration of Independence, all except for John Hancock. And, and then he had a blank for something else, but he didn't write that there. I was baptized for the following names. And then he gives the list of names, including people like Samuel Adams and John Adams and these various names here. They go on to talk about the other names that Roger Sherman baptized for the following eminent men. And the men in this list are Daniel Webster, Washington Irving, Henry Clay.
Gerrit Joseph might've told them no on that one, but Charles Lewis Bonaparte, Napoleon Bonaparte, that's Charles Lewis Bonaparte, the younger one. I thought surprising John C. Calhoun, actually, given the fact that Joseph wrote a very, very angry letter to John C. Calhoun.
Richard John Wesley on there?
Gerrit Yeah, John Wesley, the founder of Methodism, Amerigo Vespucci and Christopher Columbus. John Wesley, it's fascinating that of the religious leaders you could have done, that this one is one that's done. William Wordsworth has his work done. And anyways, there's a large list. You could read that, including Frederick II, King of Prussia, right? So there you go. But Wesley, of course, has such a profound effect on American Christianity because Arminian theology, or this idea that your salvation is a lifelong process, and that yes, while you're saved through grace, that you can fall from that grace. And so that idea is something that is much more embraced by many Christians today, where they've kind of split the difference between Calvinism and Arminianism, where you choose to be saved.
Gerrit God doesn't choose you, but then of course, many people want to say that once you're saved, you're always saved. So, but many early Latter-day Saints are affiliated with Methodism. And if you remember Joseph Smith saying that over the process of time, my mind became somewhat partial to the Methodist sect, and I felt some desire to be united with them. And so in that regard, the idea that salvation is based upon agency, choosing, I think that, you know, Wesley was profound. And so it's not surprising to me that if you're going to have a major religious figure, a founder that's gonna be a part of this, that it's gonna be a... Now for our British listeners, and we have some, you'd be happy to know that in this group is Lord Admiral Horatio Nelson, who had died at the Battle of Trafalgar in defeating Napoleon's Navy.
Gerrit But he is also one of the eminent people of the world that is baptized here. As his journal goes on, he says that, when Brother Macalester had baptized me for the 100 names, I baptized him for 21, including General Washington, his forefathers and all 16 presidents of the United States that were not in my list. So some of the presidents were part of the founders, I mean the signers of the Declaration of Independence like John Adams, right? So what he's saying is we didn't baptize him twice. Although if any of you have done a lot of temple work, you're well aware that there's a lot of folks that have been baptized multiple times for the dead. You're like, there's like 19 records for the same guy in FamilySearch, what do we do? Anyways, as Woodruff goes on, he says, all that he was baptized, except Buchanan, Van Buren and Grant.
Gerrit It was a very interesting day. And I felt thankful for the privilege that we had the privilege and the power to administer for the worthy dead, especially for the signers of the Declaration of Independence. That in as much as they had laid the foundation of our government, we could do as much for them as they had done for us. So that very, very cool, right? And then Sister Lucy Bigelow is also employed to be baptized for some of the prominent women, including Martha Washington, right? So this is a, this experience is something that you've all heard about. And he notes in his journal that we ordained two high priests for George Washington and John Wesley. So in that big list that they did, the two that were ordained high priests rather than elders were George Washington, the founder of our country, and John Wesley, the founder of Armenian Christian thought.
Richard That's really interesting.
Gerrit Yeah. Anyway, did that answer the question good enough? I don't know.
Richard It did. There was a conference report from April of 1898.
Gerrit Yeah, so this is just in his journal. He doesn't tell everything in his journal that he will later tell, but Wilford Woodruff gives a very powerful sermon later in life, and this is right at the end of his life. In April of 1898, the United States is on the precipice. Is that a great word?
Richard It's great.
Gerrit A great word? Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I think the first time I read that when I was a kid, I said, prekapiki or something like that, and the teacher corrected me, and I felt very embarrassed. Why were they having us read books with the word precipice in it?
Richard Yeah, that's true. It's funny. That is pretty funny.
Gerrit But I very distinctly remember being corrected by her.
Richard Prekapiki?
Gerrit Yeah, I said prekapiki.
Richard And that's why you named your daughter prekapiki?
Gerrit Yeah, that's why I named her that so that I could always remember my failings in life. No, it actually is a thing that I was corrected on that, but they're right on the precipice of the Spanish-American War. In fact, only a few weeks after that conference in April of 1898, the United States is going to declare war on Spain. And it's kind of a big deal. I mean, all wars are, but for the Latter Day Saints, it's a big deal. There's actually, maybe at some future podcast, but probably not ever.
Richard No, certainly not.
Gerrit Yes, certainly we'll never actually get to it. I think one of our emailers said, hey, thanks for never answering my questions. Look, while we joke about the few listeners we have, we actually do get a substantial amount of email. And we don't have any paid secretaries, nor would we trust them to answer our email if we did. And so if we don't get a response to everybody, please know we do read everything. We just, we are treading water. That's what we're doing. At any rate, there's actually a debate inside the Quorum of the Twelve about whether or not they should support the United States if there's a war, the Spanish-American War. And that sounds very weird to you, but remember, this is 1898. The Manifesto has just been passed in 1890, ending new plural marriages in the United States, but the federal government is still going after and prosecuting some of the existing plural marriages.
Gerrit There is attempts to prevent Latter-day Saints. Yes, Utah becomes a state in 1896, and the opposition to Mormonism in the Capitol is such that the people in Congress immediately prevent both congressmen and senators from taking their elected seats. So you have the reed smoot hearings because he is an apostle of the church, and he's elected as a senator, and opponents do not want to let him be seated as a senator because he is an apostle of the church. Now, ostensibly, the argument is, well, because he's an apostle of a church that still practices polygamy, which it still does, right? The manifesto ended new plural marriages, but it didn't dissolve existing ones. At any rate, that's the, while we are inching our way back into American mainstream at this point, we are not there yet.
Gerrit And so you can see why there would be a debate. Hey, if we actually end up going to war, are we really going to send our sons to go fight for the same people that are still trying to disenfranchise us in Idaho? Are we, is that what we're going to do? We're really going to, you know, the Supreme Court's still ruling against us. It's only a couple of years removed from when the prophet is going to be brought up and trial and that. Look, this is earlier, right, than that. But still, I mean, it is, it is that there's a, the saints are trying to make reconciliation, but it is not a foregone conclusion. Well, in that April, 1898 conference, Wilford Woodruff gives, really one of the most important, one of the most important conference talks ever.
Gerrit I mean, you'd have to say, for the information that's in it, there's a couple of things in there. Wilford starts off by saying this, at the close of this conference, I have a desire to bear my testimony before you on a few principles. I've rejoiced very much during this conference in listening to the testimony of the apostles and elders who have spoken. It has brought to my remembrance a little of my history. In April, 1838, while I was in the town of Kirtland, in walking across the street, I met two men who held the apostleship. They said to me, Brother Woodruff, we have something that we want you to join us in. Said I, what is it? We want another prophet to lead us. This is during the midst of the Kirtland Safety Society fiasco. Whom do you want? We want Oliver Cowdery. Joseph Smith has apostatized. After listening to them, I said, unless you repent of your sins, you will be damned and go to hell.
Gerrit And you will go through the fullness of eternal damnation and all your hopes in this life will pass before you like the frost before the rising sun. You are false. Joseph Smith has not apostatized. He holds the keys of the kingdom of God on earth and will hold them until the coming of the Son of Man, whether in this world or in the world to come. I am happy to say that those men did repent pretty soon and they turned to the church and they died in it. He doesn't list who it is. But it makes me wonder if one of those people isn't Luke Johnson, because he's one of the apostles that apostatizes at this time who does come back to the church. And I don't know who the other one is, but we could speculate. Maybe we should open the mailbag. Speculate on who the apostles are that want an overcounter to me.
Gerrit On the next episode of the Standard of Truth podcast, your speculations pretty soon will just end up being nothing more than a repository for end of the world dreams and most turn around sect. Sorry, that will never happen. So he goes on to bear a testimony. I will give you a testimony here that will show you where I stand with regard to the matter. The last speech that Joseph Smith ever made to the Quorum of the Apostles was in a building in Nauvoo. And it was such a speech that I never heard from mortal man before or since. He was clothed upon with the Spirit and the power of God. His face was clear as amber. The room was filled with consuming fire. He stood for three hours on his feet. Said he, you apostles of the Lamb of God have been chosen to carry out the purpose of the Lord on earth and now I have received as the prophet, seer and revelator standing at the head of this dispensation, every key, every ordinance, every principle and every priesthood that belongs to the last dispensation and the fullness of times.
Gerrit And I have sealed all these things upon your heads. Now you apostles, if you do not rise up and bear off this kingdom as I have given it to you, you will be damned. I am the only witness left on earth that can bear record of this. And I am thankful that I have lived to see the day in which I stand. So he goes on to continue to bear testimony, but then he turns to reference an earlier talk that since the war drums were beating, George Buchanan gave a very impassioned talk about how the saints should be pacifists. The saints should never seek war. The saints should be praying for peace. But if they are called upon, then they should do what their nation asks them to do. So Brother Woodruff, President Woodruff turns to that. He says, brother, Canon has been laying before you something with regard to the nation in which we live. It's so interesting to see this contrast.
Gerrit We talked about how far away the Latter-day Saints were from the United States in 1846. And now you fast forward to 1898, so roughly 52 years later, and here you have this coming back towards after Utah's become a state.
Richard Well, look, man, I'm down this rabbit hole on this Davis v. Beeson.
Gerrit You're looking up the Idaho Supreme, the federal Supreme Court ruling on the Idaho law preventing Mormons from voting.
Richard So this is taken away from Idaho and Mormons in 1884, and now returned until 1892. So this is six years after they weren't even allowed to vote in Idaho. So this is not that far removed.
Gerrit They weren't allowed to vote in the elections that put forth the Constitution of Idaho for Idaho to become a state.
Richard With a significant percentage of the population.
Gerrit A third of the population.
Intro That's incredible.
Gerrit Yeah. Well, what are you gonna do? I mean, maybe you shouldn't be Mormons and we'll let you vote. I mean, frankly, it's just six years before this conference address. Yes.
Richard It just is happening.
Gerrit Yeah, it is literally going on right there. But even with that, this is what President Woodruff says. Brother Kahn has been laying before you something with regard to the nation in which we live and what has been said concerning it. I'm going to bear my testimony to this assembly. If I never do it again in my life, that those men who laid the foundation of the American government and signed the Declaration of Independence were the best spirits of God of heaven, the God of heaven could find on the face of the earth. They were choice spirits, not wicked men. General Washington and all the men that labored for those purposes were inspired of the Lord. Another thing I'm going to say here, because I have a right to say it, every one of those men that signed the Declaration of Independence with General Washington, called upon me as an apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ in the temple at St. George two consecutive nights and demanded at my hands that I should go forth and attend to the ordinances of the house of God for them.
Gerrit Men are here, I believe, that know this. Brothers JDT McAllister, David Cannon, James Bleak, Brother McAllister baptized me for all those men, and then I told those brethren that it was their duty to go into the temple and to labor until they had gotten endowments for all of them. They did it. Would those spirits have called upon me as an elder in Israel to perform that work if they had not been noble spirits before God? They would not. I bear this testimony because it is true. The spirit of God bore record to myself and the brethren while we were laboring in that way. So, in response to the question, which I think most people have forgotten that we even had a question.
Richard The answer is no, Jeff.
Gerrit Abraham Lincoln is not listed among the people that appear to him because he's only referencing the signers of the Declaration of Independence and in particular, George Washington. I like how we were able to kind of tie that into the Mormon Battalion, although not at all. That's right.
Richard And now let's get to our story.
Gerrit I think if someone is listening to our podcast for a bullet point way to cheat on an American history or church history exam, they are sorely mistaken at the organization. Had we a producer that was more than just our wives kicking us and saying, this is really bad, and frankly, both of them are gone right now. So if you're wondering how to-
Richard Why is this so much worse than normal?
Gerrit Well, yeah, if you're thinking, how did Richard get so far down the rabbit hole? Because Becky isn't here to say-
Richard She's in New England visiting her brother. She's in New Hampshire as we speak.
Gerrit Yeah, Craig, we're not gonna be able to have Becky visit you anymore, because if she does, everything goes downhill. We need her here as a stabilizing force. At any rate, we were talking about the fact, when last we left you, and I feel like we did some kind of musical montage, you know, the shadow knows, that James Polk, President Polk, had told Jesse Little that he was going to call the Mormon Battalion specifically because he trusted them as good hearted, true American citizens. And I think that is the general way that that is presented by most members of the church today.
Richard I, when I was told the story of the Mormon Battalion, that here it was a great sacrifice, but fulfilling a patriotic duty.
Gerrit Yeah, and in fact, I mean, let's not go down any rabbit holes for me, but one of the things that is oft replicated in treks that are performed near and far across this great land, Richard, when you do the women's pole in trek, often is it not stated that, oh, the men are all called off to fight, and so there's no more men to pull the wagons.
Richard Yeah, fight or dead, there's a myriad of reasons, but going off to fight was one of the main.
Gerrit Now, of course, people weren't pulling hand carts until 10 years after the Mormon Battalion, but.
Richard I mean, they call off to fight somewhere else.
Gerrit Where are they going? Look, if you're wandering through.
Richard Just punching wolverines and badgers.
Gerrit If you're wandering through Wyoming in 1848, you are going to question several life decisions at that point. So maybe, right? But I think that's how most Latter-day Saints, they look at the Mormon Battalion with a sense of two things of both patriotic pride. And I do hear some people, when they talk about the Mormon Battalion, they'll say things like, well, can you believe it? Like as soon as the nation kicked us out, they then came crawling back to us. So you kind of see this mixture of, well, when the nation needed us, we were there. We stood up and fought for the country. But then you also have a little bit of, the hypocrisy of the fact that they would kick us out of the country and then turn around and ask us to fight for them. And it's not just Latter-day Saints who think that. In fact, if you look at most histories that deal with the era, they present this kind of merging of interests between the federal government and the Latter-day Saints as a symbiotic relationship.
Gerrit One of the true effects, as my great-great-grandfather found out, was that they were able to have the men sign their pay, which was pretty substantial, because it was an elitist bonus and all that, you know, to go to the war. They were able to sign that over to the church, and then the church was able to use that to fund getting many more poor people out of both Nauvoo and out of Iowa. And so it really does serve a temporal benefit for the Latter-day Saints, because there's this huge influx of cash at a time when they have no cash. Now, it's not that great a thing if you happen to be one of the women whose husband volunteers to go fight for the Mormon Battalion, and now you no longer have your husband and you actually no longer have the money that he would have made because that was signed over to the church. And so that causes some consternation. But that idea is so prevalent that when I wrote my dissertation, every single source I went to essentially just wrote it that way, that Polk needed something.
Gerrit He needed troops. And they're the Mormons were as far west as you could possibly be. They're already out in Iowa. Heck, they're almost, they're bearing down on Mexican California as it is. If we enlist them, then I've got an early advanced party. There's some reasons to think that, right? His grand invasion of California, again, all of the states, and New Mexico as well. New Mexico, the invasion's gonna go through New Mexico. What is today? Arizona, California. But that also encompasses Colorado, part of Wyoming, Utah, Nevada. That's all part of Upper California. And Polk has planned the entire invasion of this area with about 2,500 troops set aside for it. So think about the vastness. Think about how far a distance it is from San Bernardino, California to Santa Fe, New Mexico, right?
Gerrit I don't even like to fly that distance, let alone drive that distance, let alone walk that distance, right? I mean, it's massive. And Polk has planned the entire invasion, Northern invasion force, with only 2,500 men. So when you look at it like that on paper, suddenly 500 plus Mormons, well, that becomes a pretty big deal. That's a fourth of your fighting force, maybe a fifth of your fighting force, depending on how many you end up with. And so that's usually how it's seen by historians and by Latter-day Saints, that it's seen as a patriotic thing because Mormons stepped up when the call came, even though we were treated badly. And it's seen by historians as, well, a pragmatic thing that James Polk did in order to get more troops to the front line faster. Mormons became true-hearted American citizens real quick. War makes strange bedfellows. The next thing you know, Americans who hate communism more than anything in the world are referring to Joseph Stalin as Uncle Joe and acting like he's some kind of grandfatherly figure who's also murdered millions of people during World War II, right?
Gerrit Because war makes strange bedfellows, right? You ally different ways. So that's kind of how it's seen. But James Polk's journal, his diary, betrays that to not be true. So after this meeting with Little, Polk is going to write in his journal that the only purpose of raising the Mormon troops was to pacify the Mormons and to quote, prevent them from assuming a hostile attitude toward the United States after their arrival in California. So while he told Jesse Little, oh, would I even offer having you be troops if I didn't think you were great American citizens? What he wrote was it was with a view to prevent this singular sect from becoming hostile to the United States that I held the conference with Mr. Little and it's with this same view that I'm going to see him again tomorrow.
Gerrit This is what he writes in his journal. So now again, this is going to require all of our listeners to imagine a world that you can't comprehend. A world where a politician, a president of the United States says one thing to someone publicly and then literally says the opposite off the record, right? That's exactly what Polk has told Little. You know, I need your troops and I'm going to ask for you to raise a battalion because I wouldn't do that if I didn't trust you as good American citizens. Then he's going to write in his journal, I have no faith in the Mormons at all, right? That I don't trust the Mormons. The only reason I'm calling the battalion isn't because I trust the Mormons. I'm literally calling the battalion because I don't trust the Mormons. Once Little is out of the room, Polk pulls Amos Kendall aside and tells him that it's not out of military necessity that he's calling the Mormon battalion.
Gerrit He tells him it's to conciliate them and to prevent their becoming enemies of the United States. So that's a very different origin story if we were to use that terminology than we usually have. And to prove the point, something that actually takes place is that Polk will then order General Kearney, remember, spelled Kearney, he'll order General Kearney, or it's Colonel Kearney at the time, he'll later become a general, to raise the Mormon Battalion, but this is what he tells him, that the Mormons are not to constitute more than one quarter of your command. So he sends a message to him. Why? Well, it's very clear the reason why. Because if those Mormons do become rebellious, well then you need the other three quarters to make sure you put them down.
Gerrit He is certainly not treating them as if they are true hearted American citizens. Treating them as he would any other sect as he wrote, as he said, as he promised. Instead, he sees them as a threat. Now I want you to think about for a second, what would the scandal be like if it came to light that pick your past president, I don't care who it is, because whoever's listening feels so politically uptight about everything, that whether I say President Bush or whether I say President Obama, no matter what I say, I'm not trying to argue politics here, but I just want you to think about this if this were to come to light. And it was the president you either liked or didn't like, you pick, you pick whatever you want. That in fact, that one of the, let's say the 10th Mountain Division from Colorado, that it had been deployed to Iraq just before an election.
Gerrit And a memo comes to light that the president that deploys them to Iraq specifically ordered it, knowing that there was no military purpose for them at all. But because he was worried they would vote the wrong way in the upcoming election. Imagine what the fallout would be if the president were to order people into a war specifically having said, I don't need those troops there at all. I'm doing it for another. And why is he doing it? He's doing it because he doesn't trust the Mormons. It doesn't matter that Jesse Little is there saying, we'll do anything, we'll be the best American citizens, we promise. All Polk can say is like, no, you're Mormons. And no, it doesn't matter what you say to me. I mean, this is part of the reason why many, I've actually had students occasionally when I teach both Utah history or this church history course that covers the middle portion of church history.
Gerrit They'll say, didn't Latter-day Saints service in the Mexican war prove to the country that we were loyal citizens? Why did they still continue treating us badly? Well, that wasn't the point of calling the Mormon Battalion. Now, for those of you who are listening who have ancestors who fought in the Mormon Battalion, look, this is not in any way a denigration of what your ancestor did. Because when Captain Allen gets to Council Bluffs, he meets with Brigham Young. Brigham Young hasn't yet gotten the letter from Jesse Little. He hasn't gotten it yet. This is, hey, by the way, I met... So Brigham Young has to decide, sight unseen, do we do this thing or not? And he meets with the brethren, and there's consternation, but they make the determination that they will raise the Mormon Battalion. Well over 500, and of course, there's women who are also going to be employed as laundresses, who are gonna go with them.
Gerrit So it's a substantial number and a substantial loss to the company. I mean, you're losing all of these people who are obviously able bodied that can lead wagons and help out around the camp because that's why they're going here. You're not simply, it would be funny though, just to-
Richard Oh yeah, I was gonna say, every Pioneer movie ever, there's always a cook named Cookie. I could just say, I just said 500 guys named Cookie.
Gerrit Yeah, they were all like, I'm getting this wagon train in there as fast as we can. Yeah, I don't know if they have a high pitched voice, but-
Richard No, if his name's Cookie, they do.
Gerrit But if his name's Cookie, that's it. So the reaction though is not overwhelmingly favorable. I mean, even though, I mean, this is again where people are putting their faith in Brigham Young because they, think about what's going on right now. Everyone out here is living outside. They are desperately trying to build cabins so they don't freeze to death when the winter comes. And if you have ever been to Western Iowa in the winter time, you don't even need me to explain how serious this is. I mean, it is, you know, I've always said I want to go on a, you know, a church historic site mission.
Richard You've never mentioned Council Bluffs.
Gerrit There are two places I'm not going to go. I'm not going to go to the winter quarters one, and I'm not going to go to Cove Fort. Those are the two places. I mean, I'm sure I probably still will. But yeah, I'm always looking for Mormon Battalion Visitor Center, Mormon Battalion Visitor Center, Mormon Battalion Visitor Center, because it's in San Diego, and it's history, right? You might not agree anymore having listened to these episodes and having wasted your life. Can you imagine if I was doing this when you were on the tour? Anyway, Erastus Snow, who, he is, he's not an apostle yet. He's a member of the Seventy, but he's going to become an apostle. His response is incredibly negative to this. He writes about it and he's like, I can't, I mean, he's stunned that this government that's driven them out is now asking. And he says that there is a subtle plan for our destruction devised by the government of the United States.
Gerrit Snow in his journal called this a demand for troops rather than a request for troops. And he believed that it was deliberately made so that the Mormons would refuse to serve and then they could be treated as enemies. So Snow thought what would happen, the government's like, I know, we need a better excuse for why we need to kill them. What if we go ask them to serve in the war? They of course will say no and then we'll have, we'll be able to kill them. He said, quote, the government would then consider it as sufficient pretext for treating us as enemies of the government and cutting off our retreat to the Indian country. And then Snow thought the other way, on the other hand, on the off chance we did accept, well then, it must, quote, it must leave hundreds of teams without teamsters and families without protectors. And so he kind of saw it as either way that it was, it was a plot by the United States government to, because, quote, they fondly hoped that we, the Mormons, should be an easy prey to savages, starvation, disease and death.
Gerrit That, that, you know, that response kind of tells you how, how divided and bitter the feelings still were. One call to serve, you know, does not make up for the people you've buried along the way, for the murder of Joseph and Hyrum Smith, for the violence in Missouri and, and the apathy that the government has shown. And, you know, by the time the, the Latter-day Saints do get to Salt Lake, so it's not until next year, Brigham Young has already started to discern that all of the, the pretenses that Polk had set forth about, oh, I love you as true hearted American citizens, all of that. Brigham has already started to discern that that isn't really true. Now, for practical purposes, the raising of the battalion does raise essential funds that give the Latter-day Saints the ability to get many more poor people out to Salt Lake.
Gerrit Secondly, it also gives them the pretext for settling where they do, because it would have been very hard to make it all the way from Iowa to Salt Lake that year, and so they settle there on some Indian lands in winter quarters. And at least Captain Allen tells them that, well, yeah, the government's going to let you do this, because the reason why your wagon trains have to stop is because we're taking all your troops. But by the time, enough has happened by the time they actually get to Salt Lake, that just shortly after he gets into Salt Lake, there's a meeting held on July 28th of 1847 in which Brigham Young said that all the governors and the presidents of the United States had rejected all of our petitions from first until last. That when the Saints were driven from Illinois to perish, as it were, on the prairies, then President Polk sends for a giraffe of 500 men to go into the army.
Gerrit You know, even though Young had been the one who said, you know what, we need to raise the men, he understands somehow, even though he doesn't have all the details, he doesn't have Polk's journal like I do, that, quote, the raising of the battalion was for our temporal salvation at the time. You know, he doesn't see Polk as heroic. He says that if the Brethren had not gone, they would have made war upon us and the governor of Missouri would have been ordered not to let us cross the Missouri. And after saying that, Brigham Young says that Polk will be damned for this act. Apparently not damned enough because he was one of the people that, he was one of the presidents that...
Richard Nice callback.
Gerrit You know what?
Richard That's well done.
Gerrit I'm trying to do the entire thing. It's all circular. It's round and round. It's a circle. But that feeling still exists. And part of that comes from the fact that they were told that they'd be able to stay on these Indian lands temporarily until they got to move. But the actual federal officers who interact with them are constantly harassing them about being on the Indian lands, about trading with the Indians, about cutting wood down. And Brigham Young is like, no, the president is the one who said that we can stay here. But of course, the president doesn't care whether or not the Indian agents are harassing them. Because the point of raising the battalion for Polk wasn't because he needed troops. The point was to placate the Mormons and to keep them from becoming enemies to the United States, joining Great Britain or possibly even joining Mexico and causing that problem.
Gerrit And so, I know that's not the story we generally tell of the Mormon Battalion. It doesn't, as I said, in any way denigrate the enormous faith and sacrifice that Latter-day Saints had to sign up. And in fact, one thing I'd like to impress upon the people listening, if anyone's, is anyone? No one's listening. I'm going to impress upon Richard. I'd like to impress upon Richard that in fact, the sacrifice of the men and women who choose to go with the Mormon Battalion is actually greater than we think that it is. Because most Latter-day Saints don't know that those men and women who signed up agreed to sign over all of their wages and their signing bonus to the church. I don't think most people know that. Talk about a sacrifice. Secondly, you are not talking about a group of raucous and patriotic 18-year-olds who just, you know, you know, consumed a bunch of alcohol when the Army recruiter walked in and said, Hey, who wants to be stationed in, you know, in the Seychelles Islands, right?
Gerrit You are talking about a group of people who have just struggled the entire year being driven as they believe from homes that they left, who are hacking it out in the wilderness now under threat of disease and all kinds of other privations who have no idea how they're going to make it to the land that they're actually going to go to and who have absolutely no love for the government of the United States. The fact that they were willing to be called up is actually even greater than I think we often think that it is. But when Brigham Young, when the Prophet said, hey, you need to do this, they did it. You can tell that Erastus Snow did not think it was a great idea. Wilford Woodruff didn't think it was a great idea. But Brigham Young was the Prophet. And while he may not have been able to fully discern all of Polk's nefarious plans, he did make a decision that, as he later said, was for the temporal salvation of the church.
Gerrit It made it possible for both their temporary settlement in Iowa and also for them to actually have the resources to get out to get to Salt Lake.
Richard What about the quote that is attributed to Brigham Young about not fighting?
Gerrit Oh, about the promise that he gives to them.
Richard I mean, this is almost like a Joseph Smith Civil War type of...
Gerrit Yeah, that if they're faithful, it gives them that promise and the blessing that they aren't going to die in combat. Now, that's a little bit overstated, because again, some people who leave on the battalion will actually pass away through disease. So it's not that it's... This is not Hegelman's band and every single last one of them comes back. The reality is there is disease and exhaustion. And some people, in fact, there are so many sick and disabled that by the time they get down to Santa Fe, New Mexico, they decide to leave part of the detachment there. And primarily the most of the women who are doing the laundressing, the men who are sick. And so the promise is simply that they are going, that they aren't going to face the battle. And of course, we have, you know, you always hear about the Battle of the Bulls, where there's a stampede. The battalion is going to go on to, you know, march through, you know, what are today large cities, but then are just hamlets. I mean, they're going to go to Tucson, Arizona.
Gerrit So if you happen to be a wildcat, you can thank the Mormons for that. And they're actually going to arrive in California at a very tenuous time. Like I said, there are not very many troops that are going there. And there's actually kind of an initial, a revolt by the Californios, so the Mexican residents of California, which is part of Mexico at the time. And the troops there become pretty hard pressed. And so the Mormons are going to show up in Southern California right at the time that the federal government, the federal forces are losing control of the situation, and suddenly you have 500 more men who pour in. And that, you know, they don't have to fight, but it certainly is welcomed by the commander at the time. And it seems to ward off further rebellions from the Californios who, you know, see this invasion as an invasion of their homeland.
Gerrit While we're talking about it, this is unrelated, but I know this is a quote Richard wants me to get to, that in winter quarters, I talked about how difficult it is. So I want you to think about the fact that all of these people have left everything, and Nauvoo was nice. I mean, it obviously wasn't Boston, but Nauvoo, they had this beautiful temple. They had many brick homes and buildings. They had farms that were laid out. They were right there on the river, and they are driven out. And I don't mean to denigrate Iowa, but there's not a lot of parts of Western Iowa that looked like Nauvoo did at the time. Winter coming on, disease is riddling the camp, and there starts to be a lot of murmuring. I mean, you have that many thousands of people moving across this very difficult thing, and of course, there's all kinds of disputes. I remember reading Eliza R. Snow's diary as she's riding, as she travels across the plains, and she is just outraged at how poorly she's treated by some of the wagon train that she's with, you know, because they promise her something, they're taking materials from her.
Gerrit I mean, and she's not happy. And as any missionary listening who's not allowed to listen, but maybe you're still listening because their father finds a purloined way to send this to them, Andrew, you know that when you are idle is when, you know, when you're frustrated, when you're struggling, that is the time when Satan has the ability to really tempt you. And so you start having people really murmur in winter quarters. You know, is Brigham really led by God? If, you know, if so many people are dying, if it's been so difficult. And Brigham, December 20th of 1846, so in the midst of this terrible winter, he called the camp together and he, he's going to read them the riot act as much as, and Richard loves this.
Gerrit And so he wanted me to include this. He didn't want to wait for us to get to a winter quarters talk.
Richard No, no.
Gerrit Because that's season 37.
Richard Well, the reason I love it is that, I mean, in the nerdiest of ways, Gerrit and I quoted all the time. Any time anyone has ever made us angry or frustrated us, we use this quote.
Gerrit We do it all the time. You must stop, so he's staying to the camp. You must stop your swearing. You must stop your cheating. You must stop your lying. You must stop your stealing. You must stop your whoredoms. You must stop your backbiting and speaking evil of the twelve and evil of me. You must stop these things and put away your wickedness or you will be damned. You will be destroyed. Yes, counselors, high priests and elders here in the camp of Israel will say, I will be damned if I pay my tithing or if I will do this or I will do that. If God was like man, he would hurl you down to hell and let you lie and Walter there a thousand years and his mercy only keeps you out. There are many here that are corrupt and rotten at the core. And I have no more fellowship with them than I have for John C. Bennett. Remember the great apostate who started the spiritual wifery of a previous episode that we shouldn't have done and will never do again.
Gerrit If I fellowship with these things, it will drag me down to hell with you and I will not do it. Brother Joseph, this is our favorite part. Brother Joseph, being a very merciful man, bore with these things until it took his life. But I will not do it. Men get led away by degrees until the devil gets possession of their tabernacle and they are led captive to the will of the devil. And I now say that those who are calculating to continue in wickedness and to serve the devil had better go no further with this camp. They better go back to Missouri and spend the rest of their time there with the Gentiles. For I can swear to them that they go with us and continue in their wickedness. Their heads shall be severed from their tabernacles and the devils that are in them shall go and have no tabernacles to dwell in. Now that obviously sounds pretty harsh. It's also a very 19th century hyperbole. We have hyperbole like that all the time. We just don't recognize.
Gerrit We say things all the time like, I'm so hungry, I'm starving. You eat four bowls of cereal for breakfast. You're fine. You're hungry. You're not legitimately dying from hunger. But we say it all the time. We say all the time things like, I'm so mad I could kill somebody. So you're going to then find someone and murder them. I mean, the reality is, we have all kinds of hyperbole we use just without taking a second thought in our culture, and we don't even think about it because we know that it's... We use especially sports analogies. We use all kinds of military things. You've got to make your last stand here. You mean that these men have to die to prevent Notre Dame from getting that first down?
Richard No, it's fourth and three. We can't let them get a conversion. Same thing, almost exactly the same thing.
Gerrit It's almost the same thing. So anyway, but we love that quote, that Brother Joseph, being a merciful man, bore with these things until it took his life, but I will not. Brigham actually does have a great deal of mercy and restraint, but what he's speaking to is the fact that Joseph just was so desperate to forgive and trust people that it really did. I mean, when Brigham just barely finished mentioning John C. Bennett, I think that's by design. Joseph trusted John C. Bennett, and in the end, it was a disaster. Joseph trusted William Law. Joseph was so willing to see just the unabashed good in people that he often overlooked the negative, and I'm not saying that's a negative aspect of his personality. I think it just demonstrates how much like Jesus Joseph really was. He loved other people, and Brigham, surrounded in the midst of this country where they're now hundreds of miles away from the closest town and things are unraveling, he kind of calls them to account and says, Hey, we're Latter-day Saints.
Gerrit I'm not going to Mexico. I mean, they don't know they're going to Utah yet. I'm not going to Mexico with a bunch of liars and whoremongers. And I'm not going to tolerate it either. Brigham is going to say this multiple times. Look, if you don't want to be a member of the church, then just don't be a member of it. But don't pollute the church with your unwillingness to conform. I love how he says, you know, there are people who say, I'll be damned if I pay my tithing. You know, like, I am not going to pay my tithing. Well, it's kind of the other way around, actually, is what Brigham is saying. Well, there might be some damnation involved, but it's not because you're going to pay. It's going to be the other way around. Anyway, so hopefully you enjoyed this multi-part episode. I know we had lots of little vignettes in there and along the way. But again, I think we can still honor the sacrifice of these men and women who are involved.
Gerrit In fact, I think we should honor them more than we do. Because faced with absolutely no explanation for why they should join, why they should march this longest continuous infantry march in American history, why they should do it, they did it because a prophet told them to. And there was all kinds of good arguments for why they shouldn't go. And they still went. And that's what my hope for my own life is, is that whatever the prophet tells me to do, if it's inconvenient, I'm going to do it. If it's what I want to do, I'm going to do it. If it's not what I want to do, I'm going to do it. If it's anything, I'm going to do it. Now, I'm not going to do it well. I'm not good at things, but I'm at least not going to fight against it. Even if I don't understand it, even if it goes against my politics, even if it goes against the things I believe, it doesn't matter. I signed up to follow a prophet of God, and I'm going to follow that prophet. And that's exactly what those saints of the Mormon Battalion did.
Gerrit There was no reason why they should be marching off to Santa Fe instead of marching on to the Salt Lake Valley, except that Brigham Young was a prophet of God. And they knew it, and they followed him. So thank you so much for joining us, and we will catch you again next week.
Intro Thank you for listening to the Standard of Truth podcast, hosted by historian Dr. Gerrit Dirkmaat. If you know anybody that could benefit from the material in this episode, please share it with them, and for more resources, visit standardoftruth.com. Until next time.

Quote board

Make a share card from any line

I will take it. No man take it this honor unto himself.

RichardBanter

Except for anyone who's an ABD.

GerritBanter

I then had to inform the student that it would have been very difficult to do Grant's temple work since Grant was still alive, and that will put a damper on your work for the dead.

GerritBanter

Well, what are you gonna do? I mean, maybe you shouldn't be Mormons and we'll let you vote.

GerritBanter

Just punching wolverines and badgers.

RichardBanter

I'm literally calling the battalion because I don't trust the Mormons.

GerritInsight

Most Latter-day Saints don't know that those men and women who signed up agreed to sign over all of their wages and their signing bonus to the church.

GerritInsight

I signed up to follow a prophet of God, and I'm going to follow that prophet. And that's exactly what those saints of the Mormon Battalion did.

GerritInsight

There was no reason why they should be marching off to Santa Fe instead of marching on to the Salt Lake Valley, except that Brigham Young was a prophet of God.

GerritInsight

More from this episode

Claim checkThings people say, and what the episode shows.

Claim check

What critics say, and what the episode found
Abraham Lincoln appeared to Wilford Woodruff in the St. George Temple asking for his temple work.
President Polk called the Mormon Battalion because he trusted the Saints as loyal citizens.
Women pulled handcarts on the trail because the men were off with the Mormon Battalion.
Take it to classReady to use in a lesson or a talk.

Take it to class

Ready to copy into a lesson or a text

Wilford Woodruff testified that the signers of the Declaration of Independence appeared to him in the St. George Temple asking for their ordinances, and he called them choice spirits.

Polk's diary shows he called the Battalion out of distrust, not trust. That makes the volunteers' sacrifice greater, not smaller.

Battalion members signed over all their wages and bonuses to help the poor reach the West, and they went because a prophet asked them to.

Brigham Young at Winter Quarters: "Brother Joseph, being a very merciful man, bore with these things until it took his life. But I will not do it."

Banter binThe funniest moments in this episode.

Banter bin

The running jokes, for people who skip ahead
Miracles!Richard echoes the announcer again (0:25).
Doctor inflationRichard is now "ABD professor" after calling himself doctor last week, and wasn't in the Witnesses film because he's ABD (0:31, 0:55, 6:22).
The email inventor mailbagRay Tomlinson or possibly the litigious Shiva Ayyadurai (1:57, 2:19).
Satan's MoleculesCan't be found online; probably thrash metal Hall and Oates covers and the best of Bread (2:43, 2:53).
Pre-podcast musicMelissa Manchester's "Don't Cry Out Loud," Richard's mission gap from 1998 to 2000, and Angie's cooler parents (3:21, 3:50, 5:16).
Andrew in SpainElder LeDuc gets the episodes as dad's recordings, and the Mormon Battalion comes up in Spain all the time (4:08, 4:25).
PrekapikiHow young Gerrit read "precipice" (19:08, 19:31).
Becky's in New EnglandWithout Becky as a stabilizing force, Richard goes down rabbit holes like Davis v. Beason (28:08, 31:43).
500 guys named CookieRichard's picture of the Battalion's wagon cooks (44:48).
Brother Joseph bore with these thingsBrigham's Winter Quarters line the hosts quote whenever someone frustrates them (59:23, 1:00:38).
The Phebe Draper Palmer Brown MailbagSend Gerrit and Richard your question.

The Phebe Draper Palmer Brown Mailbag

Your question could be next week’s episode
Questions from Litners drive a lot of episodes. Send yours. If it makes the show, Richard reads it on air.
Go deeperWhere to read more.

Go deeper

Deep dives the episode points toward
Wilford Woodruff's August 1877 St. George Temple journal entries, available through the Church History Catalog (12:43).
Wilford Woodruff's April 1898 conference address and the debate over supporting the Spanish-American War (19:08).
Davis v. Beason and the years Latter-day Saints in Idaho were barred from voting (28:08).
The Battalion's march through Santa Fe and Tucson, the Battle of the Bulls, and arrival in Southern California (54:58).
Brigham Young's December 20, 1846 address to the camp at Winter Quarters (57:01).
SOT Litner · S2E48.