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S3E45 · Moroni Part 3
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Standard of Truth · Season 3 · Episode 45 · 1:06:40

Moroni Part 3

Moroni quoted Malachi to Joseph in 1823 with a key change: "I will reveal unto you the priesthood by the hand of Elijah the prophet," thirteen years before Elijah came to the Kirtland Temple.

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The question ·

What was Moroni teaching Joseph Smith to prepare him to be a prophet?

Richard

Richard gives Gerrit a belated birthday gift he actually likes, an 1878 book on the George Reynolds polygamy case. Two future missionaries write in, and Gerrit tells Andrew, who feels God is teaching him faith, that every religion eventually reaches questions only faith can answer. Then Gerrit walks through what Moroni taught Joseph: Malachi 3 and 4 with a twist about Elijah revealing the priesthood, Acts 3, Joel 2, and a warning that judgments were coming soon. Moroni came three times that night and again the next day, warning Joseph not to seek the plates to get rich. Gerrit closes on how Joseph, like Laman and Lemuel after their angel, still faltered.

Who comes upJoseph SmithMoroniMalachiElijahAlvin SmithJoseph Smith Sr.Oliver CowderyGeorge ReynoldsNephiLamanLemuel
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Richard claims season 3 only does multi-part series, and Gerrit asks him to check the tape.

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Intro Welcome to the Standard of Truth Podcast. In this podcast, Dr. Gerrit Dirkmaat and Professor Richard LeDuc explore the early history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the life and teachings of Prophet Joseph Smith. They examine the original historical sources and provide context for events of the past. They approach the history of the Church with faith, expertise and humor.
Gerrit Hi, welcome to another episode of the Standard of Truth podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Gerrit Dirkmaat, and I'm joined by my friend, Professor Richard LeDuc.
Richard Hello, Gerrit. This will be Moroni Part 3, because in Season 3, we only do two- and three-parters. That's all we ever do, as I said last episode.
Gerrit Why? It seems like that might not be completely honest.
Richard Check the tape. I'm pretty confident. I say that every time for Season 3. We are excited, actually, to get into this kind of fun, the way that Gerrit teased the last episode, talking about what are the things that Moroni is teaching Joseph Smith to prepare and to be a prophet, and taking a different approach there that I think was interesting. But before we jump into that and I go 45 straight minutes without talking, we're going to read. We're going to read a couple of emails from the Phebe Draper mailbag. But actually, Gerrit, before we do that, as is the birthday tradition of me purchasing for you books that you either hate or anti-Mormon books that you also hate.
Gerrit Yeah, that makes it sound like I like anti-Mormon books. I got him Secret Garden and he hated that. I got him Mormonism Unveiled, couldn't put it down.
Richard Well, so the majority of the books that I have purchased for Gerrit in the past have been books that have been written in the last little bit, and he has just told me how much he hates those particular books. But in this particular case, I tried to find something that I thought that he might enjoy relatively. My eyes were opened to the cost of historical Mormon books. I had no idea that people paid so much for those. And so the ideas I had of purchasing something really special for him were immediately dashed as I...
Gerrit At least until the premium content comes through. Yeah.
Richard You know, I love Gerrit, but I don't love him 30 grand.
Gerrit Were you just trying to buy one line of a Book of Mormon? Is that what you're trying to buy? 30 grand?
Richard I was actually looking for Mormonism Unveiled, first edition. It's a little spendy. But so I did settle on something. Gerrit has a responsibility for the church right now, where he is working on some of the legal documents of the Prophet Joseph Smith, as they're working on the biography for the Prophet Joseph, which will be really, really fantastic. And so I thought to myself, what would be something that would be in that vein that would be a lovely gift relatively? And so I found something by Henry Reed. The title is Bigamy and polygamy, a Review of the Opinion of the Supreme Court of the United States rendered at the October Term 1878 in the case of George Reynolds plaintiff in error and the United States defendant in error.
Gerrit Well, you know, with a scintillating title like that.
Richard I mean, it was the last one. Those things are flying off the bookshelves. Those 1878 books, you can't keep them around.
Gerrit No, no. Well, especially when they're titled Bigamy and polygamy. I mean...
Richard 100%.
Gerrit We had an entire premium content that teased polygamy and Martin Luther only for people to find out that Martin Luther didn't practice polygamy.
Richard No, you just said the word polygamy in the episode, so we counted it.
Gerrit Right. Well, I mean, we talked about Anabaptist. Yeah, it's true. That'll get you to polygamy. Not today, not today, but then back in the day.
Richard Yeah. So, Gerrit, this is actually not something that you've read, you know, from the book, but read online. And this is something you were familiar with, as I should not be surprised that you were familiar with.
Gerrit But yeah, but I mean, this is pretty awesome. This is an awesome gift. If you're wondering, sending me books with very long titles from the 19th century is the way to win my heart.
Richard This is true. And it's 10 years of buying you crap to build up to, essentially, where this book is.
Gerrit You see, the problem is now I feel like I'm going to have to buy you something better than, you know, good teams win, great teams cover. I'm going to have to buy you something that is... Now, look, if the rules are...
Richard I have it here.
Gerrit If you apply the principles of that book, I mean, then you'll be able to buy me an original edition of Mormonism Unveiled, I think.
Richard A hundred percent. So we're recording this episode the week before BYU plays at West Virginia. I'll be flying out to Pittsburgh tomorrow to go out to that game. And I'm sure there's many a casino in the area. Now, I don't gamble. Never would I ever gamble. But boy, after reading through some of these tips and picks, boy, be tempting.
Gerrit I can see you going all in on, you know, Marshall's going to cover and just, you know, while you're there, he's going to put it all down. You know, the story that most of our listeners don't know is that Richard goes to a BYU away game every year with a group of friends, his real friends. I'm not invited, but of course, he goes with some of his other friends, some of his non-podcasting friends. I can only imagine. He's going to West Virginia this year, like you said. Well, in a good demonstration of the type of person Richard is, he somehow knows someone in West Virginia who he's now going to go visit while he's out there because of a cruise that we were on. Now, you want to explain how does you know someone in West Virginia, Richard?
Richard So one of these friends that goes on this, one of my true friends that I go with to these BYU games, we were on a cruise together. Gerrit was also on this cruise.
Gerrit Oh, so it was true friends plus one.
Richard Yeah, that's right. And so there was a gentleman from, I believe he's from the Philippines on the cruise that was playing a guitar, and he was playing Country Roads, the John Denver classic from West Virginia. And I heard him. And so I said, Hey, I've got to have you. So they were everyone was having breakfast. And I said, Hey, well, can I, can I pay you to come into seeing Country Roads to my friends here that are that, you know, we're going on on to this game. And so this guy came and he's saying Country Roads, you know, take me home. And it was, it was awesome. And across the way, there was a guy with a West Virginia hat that was singing it at the top of his lungs on the other side of the restaurant. When, when the guy was, you know, hitting the, hitting the beats on the, on the chorus. And so I went over to him and chatted with him, ended up talking to him for about an hour about, you know, West Virginia going to Morgantown and all the fun. He sent a message on, and I told him I was coming out to the game and how excited we were to go out there.
Richard And it's like, Oh, you got to come out to the tailgate and have a good time. It's going to be fantastic. And I'm like, Oh yeah, you know, tailgate.
Gerrit Because I mean, it's easy to invite a, it's easy to invite a Mormon to tailgate with you. It doesn't cost you any more alcohol.
Richard It doesn't cost you any more. Almost anything.
Gerrit It's pretty slick.
Richard In fact, I've never been offered more alcohol in my life than going to a Texas tailgate.
Gerrit That's the thing is that they know it's kind of like, you know, like when you know that, you know, someone's out of town, but you're going to give them an invite to your party anyway, but you know they're out of town and you don't really want them there. And so you're like, Hey, Bill, can you come to my party on Friday? And he's like, Oh, I'm going to be in New Jersey on Friday. Oh, man. I so badly want to get my party. It's like the throw away invite, you know? And so, so, you know, you can feel like you're being incredibly, you know, giving with your alcohol whenever you're at BYU tailgating with you.
Richard Well, so anyway, what's funny is, is that was crud. That was in, well, it was in the first part of August, end of July. So anyway, so on the cruise Facebook page or whatever, he says, hey, they created for that cruise for people going on that cruise so they could talk to one another about the cruise. Right. So on that Facebook page, he, this person said, Hey, I was talking to some guy about coming to the BYU West Virginia game. Does anyone know who that is? I'd really like to talk to him. This was last week.
Gerrit Yeah. And my wife, who is for some reason, still following a cruise page that we were on six months ago, which is the most Angie thing. It really is.
Richard It really is.
Gerrit My wife reads it and goes, Gerrit, this has to be Richard, right? Because he was talking about West Virginia guy. I'm like, I don't know. And then sure shooting.
Richard It was. And so then he and I direct message and we're going to be, we're going to be hanging out with his family at a tailgate in Morgantown at the BYU West Virginia game this weekend. So it'll be a lot of fun. Grand time.
Gerrit There's all kinds of great announcements on the show. Richard going to the West Virginia game. I mean, by the time people are listening to this, BYU will have already lost it, right?
Richard Yeah. I mean, you know, I mean, I'm hoping not. Well, look, I actually think they match up pretty well. I think they've got a pretty decent shot. We, you know, Texas is pretty good this year, and we're still, you know, finding our way.
Gerrit Trying to get our footing for nine games into the season.
Richard Yeah, we're a little Michael W. Smith, you know, trying to find our place in this world, in the Big 12. And it has been a fun season, and BYU has shown, you know, some bright things. And I think we'll be bull eligible after this week as we beat West Virginia, and it'll be a fun time.
Gerrit Wow, a bold prediction there. So yes, this gift Richard got me, which wasn't a trip to the West Virginia game, is pretty awesome. We're talking about the George Reynolds polygamy case. That's the polygamy and bigamy case. And you know, you think, well, why are you mentioning polygamy and bigamy? Well, because in fact, the federal government made both things illegal. Now, in the case of Utah, they made both things illegal, and then they only prosecuted Mormons who were practicing it. So you actually can look in the records, and there literally are people arrested for bigamy or for polygamy that are not prosecuted, and the reason given is because they're not a Mormon. Yeah, we created this, but we only use it against Mormons. And George Reynolds is secretary to the First Presidency. He's the secretary, and he of course is then very close to Brigham Young and to the other members of the First Presidency.
Gerrit And he gets arrested, and the saints decide that they're going to use George Reynolds as a test case, essentially. We have all these people that are trying to arrest us for the practice of polygamy. We believe laws against polygamous marriages are unconstitutional. So Reynolds is going to get arrested for having two wives. Now, he's actually going to get arrested again for bigamy. And you'll notice that one of the things that happens, like people won't notice unless they're really studying a lot of polygamy stuff, and we're not going to talk about it on this show until the 38th season, so I don't even know why I'm explaining this, but...
Richard Why do you think I bought you the book?
Gerrit Yeah, that's what I thought. This is all, most of Richard's time spent is clever, scheming ways to figure out how to defend his dissertation and how to get me to talk about plural marriage. They really are one and the same. Anyway, George Reynolds is... People were also being arrested for cohabiting. So you didn't have to be legally married to two women. If you even cohabited with one that you weren't legally married to, that also led to arrest. And so this is a review of the court's findings. And spoiler alert, the Supreme Court came down on the side of the government and argued that polygamy was too much an affront to morality for it to be legalized.
Gerrit And so George Reynolds goes to jail for both of these charges, and he serves basically three years in jail for this. So it's a huge, devastating blow to the saints because they really believed, well, of course it's unconstitutional to make a law that we can't practice our religion. And that argument, of course, didn't hold up. So there's a little bit of a polygamy teaser for you by way of Richard's very kind, must have been very expensive birthday gift to me. So there's that. Now, what about our Phebe Draper mailbag?
Richard Yes, our Phebe Draper mailbag. First of all, I think the line opened at 10 and a half for BYU West Virginia. I think it's moved down to 10. And as we know, good teams win, great teams cover. I think BYU covers the 10, 10 and a half. I would even be confident enough to cover the 10. There, there I said it. Again, don't gamble. I'd like to refer you to President Hinckley's 2005...
Gerrit For entertainment purposes only.
Richard Greetings, almost Dr. LeDuc. By the way, I've been awaiting the episode where you are introduced as Dr. LeDuc. I will very likely let out a slightly loud, let's go once that happens, probably much to the confusion of those who will be around me at the time. My uncle recommended me this podcast this past summer, and ever since, I've been enjoying three seasons' worth of great humor and facet. Yeah, well, thank you. It's very nice of you to say.
Gerrit There's a lot of flattery going on.
Richard Why do you think we're reading it? First of all, it doesn't even say Gerrit. It just says me. That's the main reason.
Gerrit It says Richard. But you know what? I like the idea of an almost missionary somewhere. I mean, frankly, by the time you actually have your PhD in hand, you'll have seven kids. But I like the idea.
Richard No twins, two years in between.
Gerrit I like the idea of no adoptions either. This is just I like the idea of this almost missionary listening to a podcast in the middle of like a zone conference. You always got it. He's got an earbud in and he's he's kind of listening. It's not supposed to. And then all of a sudden, you know, we announced it, you know, we're Dr. Gerrit Dirkmaat and Dr. Richard LeDuc. He's like, let's go. Just shouts it. That's what I want to see happen.
Richard That's what I want so bad. And fascinating church history from both of you, from both you and Dr. Dirkmaat. If everything goes according to plan, I should be receiving my mission call soon, and I'm grateful to have listened to this podcast if and inevitably when I get asked tough questions about Joseph Smith and general church history from people I am sent to teach. If you go stateside, no question. If you go stateside south, yes.
Gerrit But you might go to, I don't know, Bolivia, and people may not ask you a whole lot of church history questions there.
Richard Yeah, that's true.
Gerrit How many church history questions has Rigdon gotten on his mission?
Richard In Peru, zero church history questions. There you go. There was one funny thing where they were teaching a lady, and so they asked her to turn to a verse in John. She goes to turn to the verse in John in her Bible, and that particular verse isn't in her Bible. And she says, it's not in here. It's not in the Bible. I don't know what's happening. And Rigdon and his companion get the Bible, and they see that it's a Jehovah Witness Bible. Ah. And they're like, oh, this is a Bible from the Jehovah Witnesses. And she's like, oh, okay. And so just then, like literally, the timing was hilarious. There's a knock on the door, and it's the Jehovah Witnesses that we're teaching this woman. And she invites them in because she thinks that they're friends with my son and his companion.
Gerrit Look, anyone who's knocking on my door peddling in Jesus. Come on in. We're all together.
Richard Yeah, we're all together. So what's happening is then they go to try to continue to teach the discussion. The Jehovah Witness missionaries continue to interrupt and to yell at my son and his companion. And the woman says, Hey, I didn't invite you in here to yell. You need to let them share their message. Well, if we're not going to get to share our message, then we'll just leave them. This obviously is done in Spanish. I don't know Spanish well enough to be able to do this, but that's my impression. So they decide to leave. And then the woman's like, you know, I don't like them. You shouldn't hang out with them as much as you do. I don't think that they're a good...
Gerrit Why are they members of your church? They're not the same church.
Richard Anyway, so keep up the work, guys, from Peter. Peter, obviously send us, when you receive your missionary.org email, send us your email and let us know where you got called on your mission. And we will send you access to the premium content, specifically the Joseph Smith and the Restoration stuff.
Gerrit Which we're just giving away to people.
Richard Well, it's the Missionaries. We're giving away to Missionaries. To Joseph Smith and the Restoration, which I think you will find especially helpful and profound as you are gaining a greater experience, or gainer grading context, gainer...
Gerrit I think you want us to go back and edit that, but we're just not going to.
Richard No, no, because you didn't make the mistake I did. Gaining a greater context to kind of some of the beliefs of our Christian brothers and sisters to gain a better understanding of where they're coming from, which will help you to hopefully be a better missionary. So that's exciting. You go on to ask a question. It's a very good question. It's not about Moroni, so we're going to skip it.
Gerrit But I think you might come back to it someday.
Richard Thank you very much for the question. This next email comes to us from Andrew. Happy birthday, Gerrit.
Gerrit Well, you know what? Thank you. My birthday was on Halloween.
Richard Yes, yes.
Gerrit We're recording this the day after Halloween.
Richard That's right.
Gerrit So everyone's in a Snickers and Kit Kat induced sugar haze.
Richard By the way, so I taught today at the Fine University of Utah. And in Halloween tradition, even though it was the day after, I purchased from Amazon my two favorite international candies, which are Wonder Bars and Lion Bars. Gerrit, have you had either of those by the way? Yes, I have.
Gerrit I've had both in fact.
Richard Oh my gosh. Now, are you a fan?
Gerrit I'm not as big a fan. I mean, they're fine. They're fine. Angie loves them.
Richard They're you.
Gerrit Yeah, I know. Angie loves them, but they're fine. I mean, they're... Look, I'm hungry. I'll eat it. But I'm not buying it. All right.
Richard So Wonder Bar or kale, if it's there and I'm starving, I guess I'll eat it.
Gerrit Yeah. Only if there's dressing. I mean, not for the kale, but for the Wonder Bar.
Richard Well, we hope that we get plenty of emails on favorite candy. That's always something that drives people a little crazy. I just wanted to send you a happy birthday and thank you. While I listen to this, I'm listening... While I listen to this, I'm listening to your mom, you and Richard discuss you and Axis and allies. I also played that game when I was 13, except I never learned to play it since nobody wanted to play it with me. That was always the problem with that game. Who wants to play this World War II game and who has three days to play?
Gerrit How long is it going to take? 15 hours. 15 hours, that's just to set it up.
Richard That was the same case with risk. I would always just move the pieces around the board and just make up strategy and stories and sometimes roll the dice for hours while gorging on snacks. I wonder if it was Wonder Bars or Lion Bars.
Gerrit I guarantee it wasn't.
Richard Somehow, maybe he's from Canada. You don't know. Somehow, I'm still skinny. I called it lonely risk. It is still one of my favorite games. That is sad. That is sad. We used to play on our mission. We had Elder Bird, who was just this great guy from Boise, and he would get so worked up. And so our district, we'd get together and we'd be playing Risk on P-Day as we're listening to Janus Cap Perry or whatever, whatever CD.
Gerrit Was it screaming at each other for conquering the Ukraine?
Richard Well, so what would happen? It wasn't on purpose, but what would happen is we'd play Risk as a district. And then as soon as Elder Bird was eliminated, everyone would kind of lose interest, and we'd just kind of stop playing.
Gerrit Because you were only playing to antagonize him? No, no.
Richard It was never the intention initially, but it just kind of worked out that way. And it was always, you know, he'd be eliminated, and then be like, all right, I'm kind of done. All right, me too. I wanted to thank you for your podcast and the service to God's children. I've grown so much in my knowledge of the church history, gospel doctrine and faith. I absolutely love your podcast. It has become a staple of my life over the last two years.
Gerrit Nope.
Richard The last two or three weeks, sorry. It was relatively recent.
Gerrit Yeah, I wish that would push him back into when he was a young teenager listening. Unless you're in the back of our squad car, that's not happening.
Richard As you guessed by the fact, I am starting to listen to your podcast three weeks ago. And no, I cannot give an exact date on that. This is a reminiscent document. That is funny.
Gerrit That is the kind of humor that I appreciate. That it's a reminiscent document. Very well played, Andrew.
Richard And now I'm 40 or so episodes in. Preparing for my mission has been challenging for me. I've always felt the need to know. It feels instead God has been trying to teach me instead to have faith. Your way of thinking and relationship with your testimony has helped me immensely in correlation with heavy reading, listening to the Book of Mormon. I can't focus very well on Book of Mormon while sitting. I highly appreciate you and Richard for your work. And yes, the podcast does put me to sleep. Well, I can't all be positive. If you're an insomniac, it's positive, I suppose. I'm not about to use it to put me to sleep since I have to be up early tomorrow to drive to Utah from Magna. Happy Halloween.
Gerrit From Oregon.
Richard From Oregon.
Gerrit That's a long drive.
Richard It is. It's a bit of a haul. Gratefully, Andrew could not have been read more poorly by me.
Gerrit What happens when Becky hears this?
Richard She just said Heroes Part 2 was her favorite episode of the season because I don't speak in it very much.
Gerrit Interesting.
Richard That's how you know.
Gerrit You know, I love how supportive she is. Well, Andrew, thank you so much for your email, and thank you for being willing to serve a mission. And, you know, as it relates to the question of, you know, I've always felt the need to know. It feels instead God's been trying to teach me instead to have faith. You know, I think that we have both sides of this, right? That you learn by study and also by faith. And a lot of times when you're getting ready to go on a mission, a lot of it really is, there is a lot of study part because, you know, I've heard that not every single missionary that goes on their mission has read the Book of Mormon yet. Have you heard that, Richard?
Richard I hadn't.
Gerrit Yeah, I didn't ask you to indict yourself.
Richard No, no, it's one of those things, right? Where I went on my mission and I had not read the Book of Mormon before I went on the mission. I went on the mission because you're supposed to go on a mission. And when I was a young man, when you go on a mission, when you go on a mission, when you go on a mission, this was the refrain and family night and by my parents. The majority of my friends were not LDS growing up in Western Idaho. It's very different from Eastern Idaho.
Gerrit Which is near Oregon, by the way.
Richard It is very near Oregon actually. We would purchase large items in Oregon like television.
Gerrit There was no sales tax.
Richard There was no sales tax and then we would not report them.
Gerrit Well, you're supposed to report those items.
Richard Sure. Much like in The Condemned or Repeat It, good luck. Good luck getting those taxes. Anyway, I went on my mission because I was supposed to go on a mission. And honestly, if that's the only reason that you go, that's great.
Gerrit It's still a lot better than not going.
Richard You bet. And then when I was on my mission, I was like, holy crud, what in the world? What in the world is all of this? My understanding of the gospel, my understanding of the doctrine, my understanding of anything was so small. It was the opposite of where Gerrit was when he went on his mission. It could have been further away. And so for me, that was a powerful, powerful experience as I read the Book of Mormon the first time on my mission, gained a testimony of it there.
Gerrit Right. And so when you're getting into that missionary mode, and you're trying to study stuff, the reality is many of us in our teenage years don't spend a ton of time studying. Well, look, that's not true. We do study things like what are the cheat codes to contra. We study things like how do I beat bald bull on punch out. We study some things. But to really intensively study, really when we go on a mission is one of the first times we really get into it. And so I think there's a little bit of what you're feeling, Andrew, is that there's this kind of so much there is to know. But I love the fact you say you feel that you're also supposed to go by faith. I mean, hopefully one of the things that people take away from this podcast is that while we can provide answers for some things and while there's a lot of things where it was once our catchphrase on the podcast that is it possible?
Gerrit Yes. Is it likely? No. I mean, we can only talk about things to a certain point where it has to be faith, right? So we can have a discussion about just how deep we think that the gold plates were buried by Moroni in the hill. And then how much of that earth was worn away over the course of time and how many to get to where it was when Joseph found it. We can have a discussion about it. We can debate it. We can say, well, I think it was four feet. Well, it's clearly five feet. Have you not read the latest in, you know, dirt moving on top of the mountain weekly, whatever it is, right?
Richard It's a great, yeah, it's a month.
Gerrit You subscribe.
Richard What's the monthly weekly?
Gerrit Weekly, you got to really want it if you want the week. But the reality is that when you're talking about religion, at some point you will get to a place where there are no answers, where there aren't any. And so, you know, we sometimes get hung up on little trivial things like, well, how exactly did this work out or how exactly did this work out? But fundamentally, as I've said before, and as you know, because you've been reading the podcast, you've been listening to it.
Richard You know what?
Gerrit Maybe you've been reading it since listening to it has been putting you to sleep. And you know that things like the resurrection of Jesus Christ are things that are taken on faith. We certainly have witnesses that Jesus has risen. Joseph is one of those great witnesses, part of the reason why we love Joseph Smith so much. Moroni, who we're about to talk about here, is one of these witnesses of Jesus. At the same time, that isn't something that you can logically prove to somebody. The most important parts of the gospel are things that you can understand and things that you can study. But they're things that you have to believe by faith. Like the old adage of the kid, right? What do they say? Five or six questions of why you get to the point where you can't answer it, right? Dad, why are clouds in the sky?
Gerrit Well, you can only go so far back before it's like, well, because that's just the way it is, or because God made it that way, right? The reality is when it comes to religion, you will eventually get to a place where you can't logically explain how it is things happen. I can't logically explain how the resurrection took place. We don't believe it because we can prove it. We believe it because it's true. And how do we know that it's true? Because the Holy Spirit of God speaks it to us. So I hope, Andrew, as you're studying for your mission, you can continue to allow that faith aspect to kind of don't be afraid of the fact that there's some things you have to take by faith. Taking something by faith is the most fundamental aspect of Christianity. The most important part, the atonement of Jesus Christ, is something that you have to take by faith. The Holy Spirit can let you know that Jesus is the Savior. Historians can say, well, Jesus lived. There was a man named Jesus, apparently.
Gerrit But historians can't prove that he was raised from the dead. They can only say his followers said that he was. Historians can't prove that he died for our sins. That's why, ultimately, fundamentally, we have to start at a place of faith. There will always be questions we can't answer. And believe me, there are people who answer questions even worse than I do. And there are always questions we can't answer. But the testimony of the Holy Spirit is something that goes beyond whether or not I have a reminiscent source. The testimony of the Holy Spirit is vibrant and living and powerful. And when you felt the Spirit speak to your spirit, the answer is unequivocal. But I love the email because it kind of leads into where we've been talking about with Moroni. I know it took a little bit for us to get in there, but I wanted to read those missionaries' emails.
Gerrit We left talking about what Moroni had said to Joseph. In Joseph Smith's history, he tells that after Moroni told him that there's a book depositor, that there's these stones, he says he commenced quoting prophecies of the Old Testament. What did he start with? He first quoted part of the third chapter of Malachi. Now, I would love to know what part he quoted. He first quoted part of the third chapter of Malachi. When you go to the third chapter of Malachi, it's not very long, so you can go read it right now. Perhaps it's verses 1 and 2. Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me, and the Lord whom ye seek shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant whom ye delight in. Behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of Hosts.
Gerrit But who may abide the day of his coming? And who shall stand when he appeareth? For he is like a refiner's fire and a fuller soap. And he shall sit as a refiner and a purifier of silver, and he shall purify the sons of Levi and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness. So you certainly have this kind of messianic thing. I think most people know Malachi Chapter 3 because it's talking about tithing. I doubt that...
Richard Wouldn't that go great?
Gerrit That was Moroni's first... It was his first discussion. The first thing he wants to teach Joseph Smith is, Joseph, you need to start paying 10%. What?
Richard To the false churches? Like, you got to start somewhere.
Gerrit Once you start a church, it's going to be very important. But maybe verse 7, even from the days of your fathers, ye are gone away from mine ordinances and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the Lord of Hosts. That sounds like something that he might be quoting, right? That the ordinances are gone away. One thing that makes Latter-day Saints very, well, in a way unique among Christians, other Christians do talk about ordinances. So I don't want to say that they don't. But I think every Latter-day Saint notices very quickly that ordinances aren't just things we do in Latter-day Saint theology. Ordinances are essential, right? They are essential. They're not just things we do or things we do because God told us to do.
Gerrit Maybe there are other things that are quoted to him from Al-Qaeda Chapter 3. Frankly, we're left with Joseph Smith history with a little bit of ambiguity. We don't know. But then he goes on. He quoted also the fourth or last chapter of the same prophecy, though with a little variation from the way it reads in our Bibles. Instead of quoting the first verse as it reads in our books, he quoted it thusly. So how does the first chapter of Malachi read in the Bible? For behold, the day cometh that shall burn as an oven, and all the proud yea and all the dewickly shall be stubble. And the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. So that's how chapter one of, sorry, verse one of chapter four of Malachi reads in the King James Bible, which is what Joseph would have been using.
Gerrit Instead, he says it reads this way, or this is how the angel quoted it to him. For behold, the day cometh that shall burn as an oven, and all the proud yea and all the dewickly shall burn as stubble. For they that come shall burn them, saith the Lord of Hosts, that it shall leave them with neither root nor branch. And you notice there's a pretty big difference there, because it said the day that cometh shall burn them up. Now this says for they that shall, they that come shall burn them. So talking about a different way that this burning is going to happen. Again, he quoted the fifth verse thus. Now again, let's go back to the fifth verse of Malachi, which is very well known to all Latter-day Saints. Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord. And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
Gerrit Instead, what he said was, Behold, I will reveal unto you the priesthood by the hand of Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord. Now think about what eventually does happen in 1836 in Kirtland. Elijah, along with Elias and Moses, appear and give keys. I will reveal unto you the priesthood by the hand of Elijah. Now that priesthood of Elijah, those keys given by Elijah, I think we've come to see in the church as being not just part of the keys that are given, but you could argue the most important part, the ability to seal families together, marriages together, to bind on earth what will then be bound in heaven. So that's a pretty big difference that Joseph notices.
Gerrit I will reveal unto you the priesthood by the hand of Elijah the prophet. Not, I'll send you Elijah. True enough, Elijah does come, but why does Elijah come? And it's Moroni that's educating Joseph from the very beginning. Elijah is going to come, and he's going to give you authority. Now think about this for a minute. This is 1823. Sure, Joseph's going to have lots of angels come and give him keys. Eventually, in 1829, the fact that angels will be the means whereby authority will be restored is actually first declared by Moroni teaching Joseph in that room. So maybe when John the Baptist appears to them, when Peter, James and John appears to him and Oliver, maybe it's not as surprising that that's the method whereby this authority is brought back.
Gerrit Maybe in fact Joseph is remembering this, what Moroni said when he and Oliver say, hey, we got to get baptized, but we don't have any authority. Well, you know what? God said he's going to send priesthood. Now, maybe he thought Elijah would come. I don't know what he thought would happen, but what we do have is this evidence that Joseph was taught by Moroni that in fact, some type of angelic being, some type of prophet would come and give them authority. Verse 39, he also quoted the next verse differently. And we already said that. And he shall plant in the hearts of the children the promises made to the father. Notice the difference, right? He shall turn the hearts of the fathers to the children and the heart of the children of the fathers, what it reads in the King James. What Moroni said was, and he shall plant in the hearts of the children the promises made to the fathers. And the hearts of the children shall turn to their fathers.
Gerrit So notice that subtle difference that God is going to plant in the hearts of the children these same promises that were made to the fathers, and that will cause them to turn, turn back to their fathers. If it were not so, the whole earth, now what you have in Malachi is, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse, which already sounds pretty bad, Moroni's telling of it is, if it were not so, the whole earth would be utterly wasted at his coming. Now, that sounds a little bit more extreme. Smiting the earth with a curse? Okay, I mean, certainly a curse. Utterly wasted. This just demonstrates how from the very beginning, from 17-year-old Joseph Smith, the sealing power, even though Joseph doesn't know what that is, as 17-year-old Joseph Smith, it isn't just something that Latter-day Saints do.
Gerrit Temples aren't just what we do to demonstrate, hey, look, we have a lot of members now in this place. They are the point of the Gospel. The Gospel of Jesus Christ, the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ exists not to keep us all from going to hell. I mean, Joseph at this time very much believes in hell and very much believes he could still possibly go there. But what we learn is that the Atonement of Jesus Christ is going to take everyone, outside of a few exceptions, out of an awful hell, and in the resurrection people will receive glory. So the point of the restored Gospel is exaltation. My work and my glory is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. The point of all of this isn't to end up in the celestial kingdom.
Gerrit You're going there regardless, right? The point of this is to become my God. And the whole purpose of the earth being made is so that we can progress to become like God. You can see now how it is that Moroni might say, if we didn't have the ceiling power, the whole earth would be utterly wasted. Maybe in the sense of the point of creating the earth was to have you become like your Heavenly Father. If you don't have the ceiling power, then you can't. And so therefore, the earth would be utterly wasted. It is coming. Now he's going to quote this verse 40. In addition to these, he quoted the 11th chapter of Isaiah saying that it was about to be fulfilled. Well, the 11th chapter of Isaiah, I'm not going to read all of it, but this is the chapter that talks about a rod coming out of the stem of Jesse and a branch shall grow out of his roots, and the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, and the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and fear of the Lord.
Gerrit So I think that this is, you know, this Messianic prophecy that he's talking about. And the cool part about this is that Moroni is going to start providing a little bit of interpretation of Joseph. He's not just going to quote scriptures to him. He quoted also the third chapter of Acts, 22nd and 23rd verses. For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you, unto you of your brethren, like unto me. Him shall you hear in all things, whatsoever he shall say unto you, and it shall come to pass, that every soul which will not hear that prophet shall be destroyed from among the people. So Moroni quotes Acts chapter 3, 22nd and 23rd verse, and then provides commentary. He said that the prophet was Christ. Very good. We know that.
Gerrit But then provides this further interpretation. But the day had not yet come when they who would not hear his voice should be cut off from among the people, but would soon come. Okay, so where it says, and it shall come to pass, that every soul which will not hear the prophet shall be destroyed from among the people. Moroni is explaining that that was a delayed thing, that Jesus is in fact this prophet that's spoken of, but this cutting off hasn't occurred yet. So that's interesting. You can only imagine what is 17-year-old Joseph thinking as he hears this. He also quoted the second chapter of Joel. Now, the other thing you have to think is, while Joseph, you know, I'm sure has read the Bible, anything is possible with miracles and inspiration for sure. But you have to almost wonder, my guess is Joseph doesn't know these verses by heart when the angel is quoting them to him.
Gerrit That he has to go grab his Bible afterwards or in the days afterwards and track down these familiar sounding things, but figure out where they are. At the very least, before you write Joseph Smith history, you got to know where they're coming from. So verse 41, he quoted the second chapter of Joel from the 28th verse to the last. So this isn't the entire thing. This is a small part, but this is the part of Joel that talks about the last days. And it shall come to pass afterward that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy and your old men shall dream dreams and your young men shall see visions. And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days while I pour out my spirit. And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood and fire and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness and the moon into blood before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.
Gerrit And it shall come to pass that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance. As the Lord has said and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call. So this is a quote well likened to the Second Coming by other Christians of the time. But again, the angel provides, Moroni provides commentary. He said that this was not yet fulfilled, but was soon to be. He further stated that the fullness of the Gentiles was soon to come in. And then he quoted many other passages of scripture and offered many explanations which cannot be mentioned here. Well, shoot. I mean, of the times you're like, you know what, let's not try to save space. What is he quoting? Let's hear it.
Gerrit Let's find out. But Moroni, after this, teaching him is going to provide some other things. Again, he told me that when I got those plates at which he had spoken, I should not show them to any person, neither the breastplate with the Urim and Thummim, only to those to whom I've been commanded to show them. If I did, I should be destroyed. And the cool part is, while Moroni is again talking to him about the plates, after this lengthy Bible quoting session, while he was conversing with me about the plates, the vision was open to my mind, and I could see the place where the plates were deposited, and that so clearly and distinctly that I knew the place again when I'd visited. Now, I don't know if Joseph had ever, you know, in his rambling around the Palmyra neighborhood, had ever climbed up the Hill Kimura, which was very, very close to his house and one of the tall hills there.
Gerrit Maybe he had, but in any case, he knows where these plates are buried because the angel shows him in vision so clearly that when he goes there the next day, he knows exactly where it is. I mean, you have a visitation of an angel and a vision inside of that visitation going on here. Now, we don't know how long. I mean, we had an original question about, you know, how long do these things took? I don't really know in part because we don't know how many other things that the angel quoted before he left. Joseph says, after this communication, I saw the light in the room begin to gather immediately around the person of him who had been speaking to me, and it continued to do so until the room was again left dark, except just around him. When instantly I saw, as it were, a conduit open right up into heaven, and he ascended till he entirely disappeared, and the room was left as it had been before this heavenly light had made its appearance.
Gerrit So this would have been a miraculous thing if this was all there was. But one of the incredible parts of Moroni coming, Moroni comes, gives all this information, is that Joseph explains that while he's sitting there, the same messenger is there again, comes and stands again. In an instance, he says, he commenced and again related the very same things which he'd done at first without the least variation. So he tells him everything that he's already told him. So everything we just covered, he does all of that again. And then when he finishes that, he adds something new on this second version. He informed me of great judgments that were coming upon the earth with great desolations by fire and sword and pestilence, and that these grievous judgments would come on the earth in this generation. Having related these things, he again ascended as he'd done before.
Gerrit So he comes, tells him all about the plates, where the stones are, quotes these many different scriptures to him, and then adds at the very end that the judgments of God are coming soon. This is actually going to be a unique aspect of Latter-day Saint theology that sometimes doesn't seem very unique to us today. Many, at least American Latter-day Saints are actually surprised to find out that most other Christians in Joseph Smith's time did not expect an imminent return of the Lord Jesus Christ in power and glory. And yet, this is what Joseph is being taught from the very beginning. In a much earlier podcast, we talked about the difference between pre-millennialism and post-millennialism. No doubt Andrew has already gone over those if he's 40 in. But this is a unique theology, and it's a unique aspect of what Latter-day Saints believe.
Gerrit Most Christians in Joseph Smith's time do not believe the Second Coming is going to happen in power and glory, and it's certainly not going to happen soon. And so this is going to be kind of a precursor to the many revelations Joseph is going to receive, saying, hey, the Lord is coming, and when the Lord comes, it's going to be the great and dreadful day of the Lord. So he tells him this, and then he's going to ascend again. Now, I can only imagine, I mean, not having ever, you know, had an angel appear to me, as he writes, you know, by this time so deep were the impressions made in my mind that sleep had fled from my eyes, and I lay overwhelmed in astonishment at what I had both seen and heard. And once again, here is the angel again. The angel repeats everything, all of these things, and now with the new added explanation of, hey, the Lord's coming soon.
Gerrit And then adds one thing that he hadn't said the other times. He added a caution to me, telling me that Satan would try to tempt me in consequence of the indigent circumstances of my father's family to get the plates for the purposes of getting rich. This he forbade me saying that I must have no other object in view in getting the plates, but to glorify God. And I must not be influenced by any other motive than that of the building up of his kingdom. Otherwise, I could not get them. Now you might have wondered why I spent so much time in the first episode trying to set the scene of Joseph Smith's poverty stricken life. The reason why is Moroni coming with this message from God is going to come back to specifically warn Joseph Smith that Satan was going to try to tempt him to get the plates to get rich.
Gerrit The fact that Joseph is even telling us this is, you know, pretty impressive on Joseph's part, right? Wouldn't it be a lot easier for Joseph to say like, yeah, and so I like went and did exactly what the angel said and I got the plates because, you know, I'm good, right? But that's not what you get. We all know that this isn't the only time Moroni appears, right? The next morning, Joseph goes out to work and he's just, he's so exhausted having not slept at all, which is stunning because I have teenage children who at times, you know, have tried to beat the entire Mario Wonder game in one night. And you know it the next day. You know, if they didn't go to sleep at all, you're well aware about it. I hate to compare playing a Nintendo Switch game to scything wheat. But apparently, you know, this is what you have to do in modern times.
Gerrit Joseph goes out and it's Alvin who notices, we read some of Lucy Mack Smith's account, that Joseph isn't right. That he's not working hard like Joseph usually does. And as he goes to make his way back to the house, he collapses. He's so exhausted he can't even walk, right? And there, the angel Moroni appears to him again. So now the angel Moroni has appeared to him four times in likely... I mean, what were we saying before? Seven, eight o'clock at night, right? And they're out working early in the morning, right? So they're out there by 6 a.m. At this point, Moroni has appeared probably four times in 12 hours. Maybe 15 hours, I don't know. But regardless, Moroni has appeared multiple times in this very short window. And when Moroni appears this fourth time, what does he find?
Gerrit That the angel says to him, why didn't you tell your dad about the vision that you had? You were supposed to go tell your dad. Lucy spends more time on this, but at any rate, Joseph is going to go and follow the messenger, and he's going to go tell his father, dad, I had this angel appear to me four times in the last night and this morning, and he told me this is what I'm supposed to do. And Father Smith, the reason why we love Father Smith, he replied to me that it was of God, and he told me to go and do as commanded by the messenger. And so Joseph is going to begin this walk to where he knows the plates are because they were shown to him in vision. Now he has had stressed on his mind just how sacred these records are, just how important these records are, just how much he needs to focus his life on bringing these records to light, to the point where the angel came back apparently a third time with a special visit just to say, listen Joseph, you're going to be tempted to try to get rich off these plates.
Gerrit You're going to be tempted. You cannot do it. Well, as Joseph begins that walk to where those plates are, apparently the adversary is working on him hard. You can only imagine, right? The coming forth of the gold plates and the printing of the Book of Mormon is going to shatter the silence of the heavens and bring about this, the last dispensation of the fullness of times. So yes, Satan is working on him. And as he's walking, you can almost hear his thoughts. This is gold, and it must really be there because an angel said that it was there. And if it really is gold, even just like one leaf of this gold, and my family will go from being poor people who are treated like garbage in town to being the richest people in Palmyra.
Gerrit Think of it, my mom won't have to stress about finances anymore. My poor dad who's had to move and move and move and had all these reverses in his life, he'll be set up for life. If I could just get that gold, we will be set for life. Oliver Cowdery, who didn't know Joseph at this time, right? He comes in a lot later, but maybe Joseph is the one who related this story to him. Oliver Cowdery will write a letter to the church newspaper, explaining this experience that Joseph has as he's walking. And he'll say that there were two invisible powers that are operating on his mind during his walk from his residence to Cumorah. The one urging the certainty of wealth and the ease in this life had so powerfully wrought upon him that the great object so carefully and impressively named by the angel had entirely gone from his recollection and that only a fixed determination to obtain now urged him forward.
Gerrit Now, Oliver Cowdery is certainly speaking for Joseph here, so I don't want to say this is exactly what Joseph was thinking, although he likely got this from Joseph. But he at least is, Oliver Cowdery is at least alleging that by the time he gets to where the plates are, the only thing that has come to dominate his mind is how much these plates are worth. He's thought about it and thought about it. And look, there's all kinds of excuses you can make for Joseph. That's part of the reason why I spent so much time talking about just how poverty-stricken he is. From the time he was cognizant, he has been working far more than a kid of his age would, with a desperation far greater than a kid of his age should have to have. Because he knew his family was poor.
Gerrit He knew his family couldn't afford the basic necessities. He knew that their luck had been terrible. And all of a sudden, there's a stack of gold in a hill behind his house. I don't know if he intended to try to sell all of it, or he was just going to get a little piece of it, or maybe even just sell the idea of it. What we do know is that when Joseph gets to the spot, well, he finds it pretty quickly. Not only does he find it quickly because the angels showed him where it is, he finds it quickly because he's excited to get the gold. As he goes, digs it up, begins to try to reach into the box. Imagine his mind at this point because he's thinking about the gold. Imagine what he thinks as he pops that case open. He pops the rock off to the top, and he looks down and he sees the gold.
Gerrit Clearly, the thing that is now on his mind is we are rich. This is the end of the Smith family problems. Now, I would love to say that were I in similar circumstances, I would act differently. I mean, an angel had just appeared to him four times. Joseph Smith had seen God and Jesus three years earlier than that. And yet, the trials that he was having in his life and his family were such that even with the power of angelic ministrations, he couldn't keep that thought about the gold from his mind. That's how powerful the draw of this world is. It actually reminds me very much of first Nephi, when, you know, layman and Lemuel, you know, as they are want to do, beating Nephi, you know, generally, generally it's a beating a Nephi session, right?
Gerrit He probably wished he could play a lone risk or whatever that was called. And they're beating him and the angel appears to them and tells them to stop beating him and then says, go back to Jerusalem. And the Lord will deliver layman into your hands. And so an angel has just appeared. And as soon as that angel leaves, what do layman and Lemuel say? How is it possible that the Lord can deliver layman into our hands? For behold, he is a mighty man and he can command fifty. Yeah, he can slay fifty. And why not us? The cares of the world, the realities of the world are so much upon layman and Lemuel that when they have an angel speak to them and say, go back, the moment that angel is gone, all they can think about is, well, this doesn't make any sense.
Gerrit There's no way he has fifty men that can kill us. There's no way. How is it possible? Now, of course, then Nephi gives his amazing speech to them where he says, you know, he is mightier than all the earth. Why not mightier than Layman and his fifty or even his tens of thousands? You got to love Nephi, right? At the same time, Layman and Lemuel, they aren't convinced by that. They grumble the whole way there. And Joseph certainly isn't Layman and Lemuel. He isn't trying to kill his father. But here the young Joseph, who is desperately concerned about his sins, desperately wants to be what God wants him to be. We see him falter with the overwhelming pressure placed upon him by society, by his lack of wealth, by his poverty.
Gerrit Even in the face of angelic ministering, we see Joseph falter. And that's what we'll start off talking about on our concluding episode of Moroni next week. So thank you so much for listening.
Intro Thank you for listening to the Standard of Truth podcast, hosted by historian, Dr. Gerrit Dirkmaat. If you know anybody that could benefit from the material in this episode, please share it with them. And for more resources, visit standardoftruth.com. Until next time.

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The first thing he wants to teach Joseph Smith is, Joseph, you need to start paying 10%.

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Temples aren't just what we do to demonstrate, hey, look, we have a lot of members now in this place. They are the point of the Gospel.

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More from this episode

Claim checkThings people say, and what the episode shows.

Claim check

What critics say, and what the episode found
If the gospel is true, every question about it should have a provable answer.
In Joseph Smith's day, all Christians expected Jesus to return soon in power and glory.
Take it to classReady to use in a lesson or a talk.

Take it to class

Ready to copy into a lesson or a text

In 1823, Moroni taught Joseph that Elijah would reveal the priesthood, thirteen years before Elijah came to the Kirtland Temple.

Moroni's version of Malachi says that without the sealing power the earth would be utterly wasted, which shows that temples are the point of the gospel, not a side feature.

Moroni came three times in one night and again the next morning, and the third visit added a warning: don't seek the plates to get rich.

Joseph faltered even after angelic visits, like Laman and Lemuel after their angel, which shows how strong the pull of worldly worries can be.

Banter binThe funniest moments in this episode.

Banter bin

The running jokes, for people who skip ahead
The Moroni seriesPart 3, because Season 3 only does two- and three-parters; Gerrit promises the concluding episode next week (0:47, 1:05:55).
Anti books for Gerrit's birthdayAfter years of anti books, Richard finally finds one Gerrit loves, after balking at a $30,000 first edition (1:48, 2:42, 5:06).
Polygamy in season 38Richard schemes to get Gerrit talking about plural marriage, which won't happen until the 38th season (12:09, 12:57).
For entertainment purposes onlyBYU at West Virginia, good teams win, great teams cover, and President Hinckley's 2005 talk (14:36, 15:00).
Country RoadsRichard paid a cruise guitarist to serenade his friends and made a West Virginia friend; Angie found him on the cruise Facebook page (6:58, 9:33).
Richard and the missionariesPeter, an almost missionary, will shout "let's go" when Richard is Dr. LeDuc; missionaries get the premium content (15:02, 15:54, 18:48).
Wonder Bars and Lion BarsRichard's favorite international candies; to Gerrit they rank with kale (20:15, 20:50).
Lonely RiskAndrew moved the pieces alone; Richard's mission district stopped playing the moment Elder Bird was eliminated (21:44, 22:32, callback 1:03:46).
It's a reminiscent documentAndrew can't give an exact date for when he started listening (23:26, 23:38).
Dirt Moving on Top of the Mountain WeeklyThe journal settling how deep the plates were buried (28:20, 29:04).
The Phebe Draper Palmer Brown MailbagSend Gerrit and Richard your question.

The Phebe Draper Palmer Brown Mailbag

Your question could be next week’s episode
Questions from Litners drive a lot of episodes. Send yours. If it makes the show, Richard reads it on air.
General ConferenceGeneral Conference talks that cite a scripture read in this episode.

In General Conference

Talks from the latest General Conference that cite a scripture this episode reads or names on air
October 2026 General Conference · cites Isaiah 11Quick to Help, Slow to JudgeElder Paul H. SinclairElder Sinclair recalls a Primary boy who buttoned his sleeve to his lapel and got stuck, and the little girl who quietly freed him while he himself felt only irritation, a moment that taught him to be quick to help and slow to judge.

Summaries, themes and lessons for every talk are on What Did They Say?

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Go deeper

Deep dives the episode points toward
Compare Malachi 3-4 in the King James Bible with Joseph Smith—History 1:36-39, then read D&C 110 on Elijah in Kirtland (37:43).
The George Reynolds case: why the Saints chose a test case and how the Supreme Court ruled (11:03).
Pre-millennialism and post-millennialism, and why an imminent Second Coming set the Saints apart (51:43).
Oliver Cowdery's 1830s letters on Church history and his account of Joseph's walk to the hill (59:30).
SOT Litner · S3E45.