And again, Standard of Truth podcast position on this, we're often asked our positions on many things. We are against it.
Standard of Truth · Season 4 · Episode 27 · 52:00
Of Adultery and Baptism
Of all the general conference speakers since 1850, Spencer W. Kimball mentioned adultery the most, according to Richard's crack research staff.
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The question ·
Where did this language originate and what are the implications of the different phrases?
Rex (listener)
Richard debuts a numbers segment called 'Fun With Adultery,' counting general conference talks on adultery since 1850 by decade and by speaker, with Spencer W. Kimball on top. Emails from David, who noticed Apple and Spotify transcripts mangling the hosts' names, and Stephanie, who also hates Missouri, lead to plans for the 2025 tours. Then Rex asks why the baptismal prayer said 'having authority given me of Jesus Christ' until the 1835 Doctrine and Covenants changed it to 'having been commissioned of Jesus Christ.' Gerrit traces the wording from 3 Nephi and Oliver Cowdery's 1829 Articles to D&C 20, and explains that the change came between 1833 and 1835. He argues that prophets can revise wording, that apostate groups often use older wording to attack Church leaders, and that God chose prophets, not YouTube channels, to lead the Church.
Who comes upSpencer W. KimballN. Eldon TannerThomas S. MonsonOliver CowderyJoseph SmithBrigham YoungJonathan H. HaleRussell M. Nelson
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Fun With Adultery
Richard brings numbers to the adultery topic, against Gerrit's naming wishes.
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440 moments · tap a time to play from thereIntro Welcome to the Standard of Truth Podcast. In this podcast, Dr. Gerrit Dirkmaat and Professor Richard LeDuc explore the early history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the life and teachings of Prophet Joseph Smith. They examine the original historical sources and provide context for events of the past. They approach the history of the Church with faith, expertise, and humor.
Intro Welcome to the Standard of Truth Podcast. In this podcast, Dr. Gerrit Dirkmaat and Professor Richard LeDuc explore the early history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the life and teachings of Prophet Joseph Smith. They examine the original historical sources and provide context for events of the past. They approach the history of the Church with faith, expertise, and humor.
Gerrit Hi, welcome to another episode of the Standard of Truth Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Gerrit Dirkmaat, and I'm joined by my non-adulterous friend, Professor Richard LeDuc.
Gerrit Hi, welcome to another episode of the Standard of Truth Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Gerrit Dirkmaat, and I'm joined by my non-adulterous friend, Professor Richard LeDuc.
Richard Ah, thanks, Gerrit. That is high praise indeed. I think in the last episode, we talked about adultery, and is that an unpardonable sin as it relates to exaltation? And I believe that you answered that very well by finding different sources, mainly the Doctrine and Covenants, that suggested that you shouldn't do it. Again, we'd like to refer people to President Hinckley's 1991 April Conference address. Shouldn't do it. But that repentance is available for those folks. And that-
Richard Ah, thanks, Gerrit. That is high praise indeed. I think in the last episode, we talked about adultery, and is that an unpardonable sin as it relates to exaltation? And I believe that you answered that very well by finding different sources, mainly the Doctrine and Covenants, that suggested that you shouldn't do it. Again, we'd like to refer people to President Hinckley's 1991 April Conference address. Shouldn't do it. But that repentance is available for those folks. And that-
Gerrit But it sounds like that topic got your wheels spinning over there a little bit.
Gerrit But it sounds like that topic got your wheels spinning over there a little bit.
Richard It sure did. As I was looking in terms of like, how many times has adultery been mentioned in general conference where people are talking about not committing it?
Richard It sure did. As I was looking in terms of like, how many times has adultery been mentioned in general conference where people are talking about not committing it?
Gerrit Are they ever talking about committing it's fine? I mean, I don't think so.
Gerrit Are they ever talking about committing it's fine? I mean, I don't think so.
Richard Yeah, I don't think so. So I went back, looked from, we've got our crack research staff all over this one. And so this isn't gonna sound right. The way that I say this. So I just wanna try and provide some context, a little disclaimer. So when I teach gospel doctrine or I've since been released from that calling, obvious fraud.
Richard Yeah, I don't think so. So I went back, looked from, we've got our crack research staff all over this one. And so this isn't gonna sound right. The way that I say this. So I just wanna try and provide some context, a little disclaimer. So when I teach gospel doctrine or I've since been released from that calling, obvious fraud.
Gerrit I wonder why you have a fascination with adultery.
Gerrit I wonder why you have a fascination with adultery.
Richard Well, I have a fascination with just numbers generally. So when I teach something that I think is interesting and I believe provides additional context to a thing, I try and spice it up. I put together a presentation for gospel doctrine. I'm one of those teachers that has a 87-point PowerPoint. And so-
Richard Well, I have a fascination with just numbers generally. So when I teach something that I think is interesting and I believe provides additional context to a thing, I try and spice it up. I put together a presentation for gospel doctrine. I'm one of those teachers that has a 87-point PowerPoint. And so-
Gerrit I am as well.
Gerrit I am as well.
Richard All right. So anyway, so let's say that we're talking about the Feast of the Tabernacles and that additional context of when Jesus is in Jerusalem helps to have greater depth and understanding of what Jesus is saying. And so when he's saying that I'm the living water, what's happening at that time, right? So I have a slide to introduce those things, Fun With Feasts or Fun With whatever. And so-
Richard All right. So anyway, so let's say that we're talking about the Feast of the Tabernacles and that additional context of when Jesus is in Jerusalem helps to have greater depth and understanding of what Jesus is saying. And so when he's saying that I'm the living water, what's happening at that time, right? So I have a slide to introduce those things, Fun With Feasts or Fun With whatever. And so-
Gerrit Fun With Elijah, right? Fun-
Gerrit Fun With Elijah, right? Fun-
Richard Yeah, Fun With Elijah.
Richard Yeah, Fun With Elijah.
Gerrit Fun with, yeah, I mean, it would be best if there was a scripture person with an F sound.
Gerrit Fun with, yeah, I mean, it would be best if there was a scripture person with an F sound.
Richard It'd be better alliteration for sure. And so-
Richard It'd be better alliteration for sure. And so-
Gerrit Fun With Feastus.
Gerrit Fun With Feastus.
Richard Hey, there we go. Even the F sound, that's good. So when I pitched this to Gerrit, I said, so I kind of want to call the thing, Fun With Adultery. And he said, huh, all right. Well, let's see how that goes.
Richard Hey, there we go. Even the F sound, that's good. So when I pitched this to Gerrit, I said, so I kind of want to call the thing, Fun With Adultery. And he said, huh, all right. Well, let's see how that goes.
Gerrit In case of glass break, in case you need a new co-host, break glass and then, yeah.
Gerrit In case of glass break, in case you need a new co-host, break glass and then, yeah.
Richard So this next segment is called Fun With Adultery. So what I did, I did not approve that name, but this is the crinkling leaves of Fun Withs. So anyway, so this, I went back, got the crack research staff on this. So we looked at all conference addresses from 1850 to today and broke them out by decade. And here's the thing, there are more conference talks than this on the topic of adultery, but adultery is not specifically maybe mentioned in the talk.
Richard So this next segment is called Fun With Adultery. So what I did, I did not approve that name, but this is the crinkling leaves of Fun Withs. So anyway, so this, I went back, got the crack research staff on this. So we looked at all conference addresses from 1850 to today and broke them out by decade. And here's the thing, there are more conference talks than this on the topic of adultery, but adultery is not specifically maybe mentioned in the talk.
Gerrit Right. Like someone used the word infidelity and your search didn't catch that.
Gerrit Right. Like someone used the word infidelity and your search didn't catch that.
Richard Right. So in terms of the numbers of times that the word adultery has appeared, that number is different than this.
Richard Right. So in terms of the numbers of times that the word adultery has appeared, that number is different than this.
Gerrit What about fornication?
Gerrit What about fornication?
Richard Yeah, sure. We could do similar. So now that's got a good F sound and that would be fun with fornication. But that's again, that would be a topic for a different episode. We'll focus on adultery here. And again, Standard of Truth podcast position on this, we're often asked our positions on many things. We are against it.
Richard Yeah, sure. We could do similar. So now that's got a good F sound and that would be fun with fornication. But that's again, that would be a topic for a different episode. We'll focus on adultery here. And again, Standard of Truth podcast position on this, we're often asked our positions on many things. We are against it.
Gerrit Yeah, we're opposed to committing adultery, but in favor of repentance.
Gerrit Yeah, we're opposed to committing adultery, but in favor of repentance.
Richard We're huge fans of that. We think you should. So, Gerrit, if you were to guess how many talks there have been since 1850 that reference adultery at least one time, what would be your number? What's the guess?
Richard We're huge fans of that. We think you should. So, Gerrit, if you were to guess how many talks there have been since 1850 that reference adultery at least one time, what would be your number? What's the guess?
Gerrit That's a lot. I mean, how many talks are there between, I would say hundreds of talks, maybe 200.
Gerrit That's a lot. I mean, how many talks are there between, I would say hundreds of talks, maybe 200.
Richard That's a good guess. 295 talks.
Richard That's a good guess. 295 talks.
Gerrit Okay. So it wasn't that good of a guess. I was off by a hundred.
Gerrit Okay. So it wasn't that good of a guess. I was off by a hundred.
Richard That was actually a pretty terrible guess. No, it was pretty decent.
Richard That was actually a pretty terrible guess. No, it was pretty decent.
Gerrit That was as close as you get on your sports picks.
Gerrit That was as close as you get on your sports picks.
Richard Now, the first one we have, let me ask you this. The first talk on adultery from 1850, because there were talks before that. We just don't have the record up, right? So the first talk came in 1852 where adultery was mentioned. Who do you think gave that talk?
Richard Now, the first one we have, let me ask you this. The first talk on adultery from 1850, because there were talks before that. We just don't have the record up, right? So the first talk came in 1852 where adultery was mentioned. Who do you think gave that talk?
Gerrit Well, first of all, I know that Orson Pratt gave a talk in 1852 on adultery. I know it.
Gerrit Well, first of all, I know that Orson Pratt gave a talk in 1852 on adultery. I know it.
Richard It was Orson Pratt. You're kidding me. It was 1852 and it was Orson Pratt.
Richard It was Orson Pratt. You're kidding me. It was 1852 and it was Orson Pratt.
Gerrit Yeah. I know that talk.
Gerrit Yeah. I know that talk.
Richard How?
Richard How?
Gerrit What? You thought you were going to pull one over on me.
Gerrit What? You thought you were going to pull one over on me.
Richard You know what? Yeah. This is no longer fun with adultery. Well, how about the last person to give a talk on adultery, where adultery is mentioned?
Richard You know what? Yeah. This is no longer fun with adultery. Well, how about the last person to give a talk on adultery, where adultery is mentioned?
Gerrit Like up to the modern times? Like up to the last conference?
Gerrit Like up to the modern times? Like up to the last conference?
Richard You're like, look, don't ask me anything after 1900. So I don't know.
Richard You're like, look, don't ask me anything after 1900. So I don't know.
Gerrit I don't even listen to the conference. If it's not 100 years ago, I don't pay attention. So you mean up to like 2024?
Gerrit I don't even listen to the conference. If it's not 100 years ago, I don't pay attention. So you mean up to like 2024?
Richard Yeah.
Richard Yeah.
Gerrit The last talk I'm going to say was in 2021, President Oaks.
Gerrit The last talk I'm going to say was in 2021, President Oaks.
Richard 2023, President Oaks.
Richard 2023, President Oaks.
Gerrit Dang it. He's always talking about it though.
Gerrit Dang it. He's always talking about it though.
Richard Yes. And there was, there was, looks like there might have been another General Authority that may have given a talk after him. So the last apostle or presidency member.
Richard Yes. And there was, there was, looks like there might have been another General Authority that may have given a talk after him. So the last apostle or presidency member.
Gerrit We're not counting anyone else, right?
Gerrit We're not counting anyone else, right?
Richard If you're a 70 or presiding bishopric, we respect you. We count you as the total count.
Richard If you're a 70 or presiding bishopric, we respect you. We count you as the total count.
Gerrit And we, we, we, we very much respect your authority and your position. And also you weren't included in Richard's count.
Gerrit And we, we, we, we very much respect your authority and your position. And also you weren't included in Richard's count.
Richard So okay. So now which, which decade, which decade do you think in since 1850, do you think the most talks on adultery have been given? Man, what do you think was the worst decade?
Richard So okay. So now which, which decade, which decade do you think in since 1850, do you think the most talks on adultery have been given? Man, what do you think was the worst decade?
Gerrit I mean, essentially, I mean, they talked about it a lot when they first got to Utah.
Gerrit I mean, essentially, I mean, they talked about it a lot when they first got to Utah.
Richard They sure did.
Richard They sure did.
Gerrit There was a lot of talks on it.
Gerrit There was a lot of talks on it.
Richard Yep.
Richard Yep.
Gerrit Um, but also like free love and Woodstock exists. So like the sixties are also going to be pretty prominent as well as the seventies. So I'll say nineteen sixties, but I won't be surprised if it's the eighteen fifties.
Gerrit Um, but also like free love and Woodstock exists. So like the sixties are also going to be pretty prominent as well as the seventies. So I'll say nineteen sixties, but I won't be surprised if it's the eighteen fifties.
Richard So, uh, eighteen fifties, um, fifteen talks on adultery. So now on average per decade, we can expect sixteen point four talks on adultery.
Richard So, uh, eighteen fifties, um, fifteen talks on adultery. So now on average per decade, we can expect sixteen point four talks on adultery.
Gerrit I hope to see a Venn diagram of this after the show.
Gerrit I hope to see a Venn diagram of this after the show.
Richard Well, yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to put this in a pivot table. You're going to love it. This is great.
Richard Well, yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to put this in a pivot table. You're going to love it. This is great.
Gerrit So maybe this could be your dissertation.
Gerrit So maybe this could be your dissertation.
Richard Maybe it could be actually. So, um, so we were, so in this decade, in the 2020s, we're at seven. So, um, we should expect to see, you know, between nine and ten more talks in the next six years on how quickly our society generates.
Richard Maybe it could be actually. So, um, so we were, so in this decade, in the 2020s, we're at seven. So, um, we should expect to see, you know, between nine and ten more talks in the next six years on how quickly our society generates.
Gerrit That's right. I mean, so if it degenerates really rapidly, they're going to have to kick it up. I mean, if they do like another Woodstock reunion.
Gerrit That's right. I mean, so if it degenerates really rapidly, they're going to have to kick it up. I mean, if they do like another Woodstock reunion.
Richard Yes. So, so then, so then here's, so in 18, in the 1850s, we were 92% to the 16.4. So we were slightly below average in the 1850s. So I'm sure it was mentioned a lot of stake and ward conferences for sure.
Richard Yes. So, so then, so then here's, so in 18, in the 1850s, we were 92% to the 16.4. So we were slightly below average in the 1850s. So I'm sure it was mentioned a lot of stake and ward conferences for sure.
Gerrit I wonder though, how many, you know, what you haven't controlled for is how many total talks are given because they used to talk for way longer.
Gerrit I wonder though, how many, you know, what you haven't controlled for is how many total talks are given because they used to talk for way longer.
Richard Well, oh, I see. I see.
Richard Well, oh, I see. I see.
Gerrit So like one person would get up and talk for three hours.
Gerrit So like one person would get up and talk for three hours.
Richard That's a great point. Because the total, the total references to adultery, again, specifically the word adultery. So people might be talking about it without saying that word exactly.
Richard That's a great point. Because the total, the total references to adultery, again, specifically the word adultery. So people might be talking about it without saying that word exactly.
Gerrit But so I feel like we can have a lot of people who like are really steeped in adultery history. They're going to be emailing us saying, no, no, you don't understand.
Gerrit But so I feel like we can have a lot of people who like are really steeped in adultery history. They're going to be emailing us saying, no, no, you don't understand.
Richard Look, do you want to grow in France or do you not want to grow in France, Gerrit?
Richard Look, do you want to grow in France or do you not want to grow in France, Gerrit?
Gerrit That's what we're going for, apparently, that's our growth pattern.
Gerrit That's what we're going for, apparently, that's our growth pattern.
Richard So anyway, the number of words that it's like close to 700, the number of talks is just under 300. So now, now there, there was a spike in the, in the 1940s. There was a nice spike, and so we were 165% of average there, right? So that means we were 65% above the, at 27 talks on adultery.
Richard So anyway, the number of words that it's like close to 700, the number of talks is just under 300. So now, now there, there was a spike in the, in the 1940s. There was a nice spike, and so we were 165% of average there, right? So that means we were 65% above the, at 27 talks on adultery.
Gerrit War creates many opportunities for adultery.
Gerrit War creates many opportunities for adultery.
Richard Well, you say that, but the Korean War, the next year, we were, you know what, 55% of the average, we only had nine talks on adultery. So the Korean War.
Richard Well, you say that, but the Korean War, the next year, we were, you know what, 55% of the average, we only had nine talks on adultery. So the Korean War.
Gerrit In the 1950s.
Gerrit In the 1950s.
Richard In the 1950s. So, so that, I mean, that was great.
Richard In the 1950s. So, so that, I mean, that was great.
Gerrit Were they all at the beginning of the 1950s or at the end? You know what? Let me check.
Gerrit Were they all at the beginning of the 1950s or at the end? You know what? Let me check.
Richard Uh, cause I stall for time.
Richard Uh, cause I stall for time.
Gerrit I work with someone who's a chaplain and he actually trains chaplains in the armed forces. And so I'd like to pose that question to him at some point. I'm going to talk to him and say, what do you think?
Gerrit I work with someone who's a chaplain and he actually trains chaplains in the armed forces. And so I'd like to pose that question to him at some point. I'm going to talk to him and say, what do you think?
Richard Well, it'd be great if we could have a second segment on Fun With Adultery, if we can turn this into a real kind of modern content of-
Richard Well, it'd be great if we could have a second segment on Fun With Adultery, if we can turn this into a real kind of modern content of-
Gerrit Well, I mean, we'll be getting slightly closer to your goal and that is to surreptitiously talk about polygamy.
Gerrit Well, I mean, we'll be getting slightly closer to your goal and that is to surreptitiously talk about polygamy.
Richard We're so close.
Richard We're so close.
Gerrit Yeah.
Richard So, all right. So you, you said, um, that you thought the 1960s, right?
Gerrit Yeah.
Richard So, all right. So you, you said, um, that you thought the 1960s, right?
Gerrit Yeah.
Gerrit Yeah.
Richard The 1960s were 95% above the average at 32 talks on adultery.
Richard The 1960s were 95% above the average at 32 talks on adultery.
Gerrit Hey, we doubled it almost.
Gerrit Hey, we doubled it almost.
Richard That's a, that's a runaway, except the 1970s exist.
Richard That's a, that's a runaway, except the 1970s exist.
Gerrit I was going to say the 70s are going to have a lot too.
Gerrit I was going to say the 70s are going to have a lot too.
Richard They were 223% above the average. We had 53 talks on adultery in the 1970s.
Richard They were 223% above the average. We had 53 talks on adultery in the 1970s.
Gerrit All right.
Richard There you go. Now, there is one more thing that's fun with adultery that I want to talk about, and that is, Gerrit, who do you think gave the most talks about adultery?
Gerrit All right.
Richard There you go. Now, there is one more thing that's fun with adultery that I want to talk about, and that is, Gerrit, who do you think gave the most talks about adultery?
Gerrit Which person gave the most?
Gerrit Which person gave the most?
Richard Yeah. Which, which, which apostle or president of the church gave the most talks on, because we've got, you know, we've got the, we've got the top five.
Richard Yeah. Which, which, which apostle or president of the church gave the most talks on, because we've got, you know, we've got the, we've got the top five.
Gerrit Is there an outside looking in?
Gerrit Is there an outside looking in?
Richard We have three OTL, yeah, or OLT. Outside looking in.
Richard We have three OTL, yeah, or OLT. Outside looking in.
Gerrit Look, Brigham Young, Brigham Young is going to be there. Brigham Young is going to be there.
Gerrit Look, Brigham Young, Brigham Young is going to be there. Brigham Young is going to be there.
Richard Brigham Young is not there.
Richard Brigham Young is not there.
Gerrit He's not in the top eight.
Gerrit He's not in the top eight.
Richard He's not in the top eight.
Richard He's not in the top eight.
Gerrit Um, so you're going to have Joseph Fielding Smith?
Gerrit Um, so you're going to have Joseph Fielding Smith?
Richard No.
Richard No.
Gerrit No? We could say Orson Bratt talking about it all the time.
Gerrit No? We could say Orson Bratt talking about it all the time.
Richard He might have been talking about it all the time, but he, I think what he did is he flooded when he talked about it, he talked about it all the time in one talk. Yeah, that's right.
Richard He might have been talking about it all the time, but he, I think what he did is he flooded when he talked about it, he talked about it all the time in one talk. Yeah, that's right.
Gerrit Um, let's go with, um, let's go with Heber J. Grant. No, man, man, I don't have any of these.
Gerrit Um, let's go with, um, let's go with Heber J. Grant. No, man, man, I don't have any of these.
Richard Let me, let me give you, I don't do modern stuff very well, Orson Pratt, 1852 with the first talk on adultery. So that was like, I couldn't believe that.
Richard Let me, let me give you, I don't do modern stuff very well, Orson Pratt, 1852 with the first talk on adultery. So that was like, I couldn't believe that.
Gerrit But that was, yeah, well, now I've got nothing.
Gerrit But that was, yeah, well, now I've got nothing.
Richard Let me give you the three O.L.I.s, um, just outside at six talks, referencing adultery is President Hinckley.
Richard Let me give you the three O.L.I.s, um, just outside at six talks, referencing adultery is President Hinckley.
Gerrit Okay.
Richard Okay. Coming in at number seven, Marion G. Romney. With eight.
Gerrit Okay.
Richard Okay. Coming in at number seven, Marion G. Romney. With eight.
Gerrit What about, what about, uh, what about President Holland then?
Gerrit What about, what about, uh, what about President Holland then?
Richard No, no, no, he, he's given several, but not, not quite, not the volume.
Richard No, no, no, he, he's given several, but not, not quite, not the volume.
Gerrit Yeah.
Gerrit Yeah.
Richard Not the volume. And then I think he's at five, I think. And then Thomas S. Monson, the last OLI, and he's at eight. So now, now it's just the top, the top five now, now, and one of the safest things here is to go longevity, right?
Richard Not the volume. And then I think he's at five, I think. And then Thomas S. Monson, the last OLI, and he's at eight. So now, now it's just the top, the top five now, now, and one of the safest things here is to go longevity, right?
Gerrit Yeah. Well, what about N. Eldon Tanner?
Gerrit Yeah. Well, what about N. Eldon Tanner?
Richard N. Eldon Tanner is number two on the list. Eleven talks on adultery.
Richard N. Eldon Tanner is number two on the list. Eleven talks on adultery.
Gerrit All right.
Gerrit All right.
Richard It's exciting.
Richard It's exciting.
Gerrit Um, uh, let's say, um, I feel like I'm on a game show that I'm losing.
Gerrit Um, uh, let's say, um, I feel like I'm on a game show that I'm losing.
Richard Oh, this is very exciting. Yeah. No. So here's the thing, Gerrit. If you get, so you have, you have three more, uh, chances. If you get them all in three more chances, you win a $50 Olive Garden gift card. That I actually have right here.
Richard Oh, this is very exciting. Yeah. No. So here's the thing, Gerrit. If you get, so you have, you have three more, uh, chances. If you get them all in three more chances, you win a $50 Olive Garden gift card. That I actually have right here.
Gerrit Whoa. He literally is. Where did you get that? Did Mike send another one?
Gerrit Whoa. He literally is. Where did you get that? Did Mike send another one?
Richard Thank you, Mike, by the way. No, I went and purchased this for the purpose of this specific Fun With Adultery game show. All right. I should have been doing X's before this. I wasn't doing it. But now we're starting. You got three more guesses to get them all and you win this $50 Olive Garden gift card.
Richard Thank you, Mike, by the way. No, I went and purchased this for the purpose of this specific Fun With Adultery game show. All right. I should have been doing X's before this. I wasn't doing it. But now we're starting. You got three more guesses to get them all and you win this $50 Olive Garden gift card.
Gerrit Okay. I'm going to say President Benson.
Gerrit Okay. I'm going to say President Benson.
Richard No, but he was close. He was OLI of OLI. So that's one X.
Richard No, but he was close. He was OLI of OLI. So that's one X.
Gerrit How about. Yeah, boy, they got to be Orson Hyde. That's rough, man. It's rough. Joseph F. Smith.
Gerrit How about. Yeah, boy, they got to be Orson Hyde. That's rough, man. It's rough. Joseph F. Smith.
Richard No, I'm sorry. I was about to give you a hint, but no, I'm sorry. I retained this Olive Garden gift card until the next time we play Fun With Adultery. Number five was David O. McKay.
Richard No, I'm sorry. I was about to give you a hint, but no, I'm sorry. I retained this Olive Garden gift card until the next time we play Fun With Adultery. Number five was David O. McKay.
Gerrit Oh, I'm sorry.
Richard With nine. So really, really the thing is, is like, who was there in the, in the fit? Right.
Gerrit Oh, I'm sorry.
Richard With nine. So really, really the thing is, is like, who was there in the, in the fit? Right.
Gerrit I should have been doing that.
Gerrit I should have been doing that.
Richard So and then John Taylor came fourth, we know, and he had, he had nine. Number three, George Q. Cannon.
Richard So and then John Taylor came fourth, we know, and he had, he had nine. Number three, George Q. Cannon.
Gerrit Okay. And he was there forever. So that makes sense. Cause he was, he was first, he was in the First Presidency forever.
Gerrit Okay. And he was there forever. So that makes sense. Cause he was, he was first, he was in the First Presidency forever.
Richard Forever. And then, and, and Eldon Tanner was second. And then number one, this actually probably won't come as a surprise when I say it, Spencer W. Kimball.
Richard Forever. And then, and, and Eldon Tanner was second. And then number one, this actually probably won't come as a surprise when I say it, Spencer W. Kimball.
Gerrit Oh, okay. Well, miracle forgiveness. Okay. All right.
Gerrit Oh, okay. Well, miracle forgiveness. Okay. All right.
Richard That has been Fun With Adultery.
Richard That has been Fun With Adultery.
Gerrit And for those of you playing along at home, this was just a game. And also, I'm not very good at it.
Gerrit And for those of you playing along at home, this was just a game. And also, I'm not very good at it.
Richard Wow. You crushed a couple of things pretty well. So I thought you did great, Gerrit. That was fun. Now, we have a couple of emails before we jump into the baptism question that we received. The first isn't a question. This one comes to us from David. David wasn't able to come with us on the tour this last year. He had a wedding that is now over.
Richard Wow. You crushed a couple of things pretty well. So I thought you did great, Gerrit. That was fun. Now, we have a couple of emails before we jump into the baptism question that we received. The first isn't a question. This one comes to us from David. David wasn't able to come with us on the tour this last year. He had a wedding that is now over.
Gerrit Maybe he needs to pick his priorities, is what I think.
Gerrit Maybe he needs to pick his priorities, is what I think.
Richard He said, the wedding is now over and I can begin saving for the Standard of Truth Tour 2025. Early June is great for me, so feel free to keep it there and keep it cooler. Then he goes on. It's actually a very funny email because Spotify and Apple now are providing transcripts for the podcast. That's terrifying to me. It goes through and it provides all of the different variations of the spelling of our names as we say our names in the Spotify space. It's a very funny email. It's more visual than it is because there's a lot of misspellings. David, thank you very much. By the way, I think, Gerrit, we're not quite ready for people to start signing up yet, but Gerrit, I think you have the dates to be able to announce.
Richard He said, the wedding is now over and I can begin saving for the Standard of Truth Tour 2025. Early June is great for me, so feel free to keep it there and keep it cooler. Then he goes on. It's actually a very funny email because Spotify and Apple now are providing transcripts for the podcast. That's terrifying to me. It goes through and it provides all of the different variations of the spelling of our names as we say our names in the Spotify space. It's a very funny email. It's more visual than it is because there's a lot of misspellings. David, thank you very much. By the way, I think, Gerrit, we're not quite ready for people to start signing up yet, but Gerrit, I think you have the dates to be able to announce.
Gerrit Yeah, and we've actually received quite a bit of feedback that there are some people who just, Dave, not to take your email and then just reject it immediately.
Gerrit Yeah, and we've actually received quite a bit of feedback that there are some people who just, Dave, not to take your email and then just reject it immediately.
Richard Yeah, throw it in the garbage immediately.
Richard Yeah, throw it in the garbage immediately.
Gerrit Hey, guys, I could really do it if you do it in early June. All right, Dave, well, we're going to move it just to try to keep you from being able to go. At Standard of Truth, we like to keep people guessing. For instance, we like to try to get them to guess when someone talked about adultery. We do a lot of guessing around here. So, yeah, we are going to be doing a little bit later than we have in the past, just so those people who haven't been able to go will have the ability to. And so we're planning on June 22nd through the 28th of 2025. And we're going to be going to Missouri and Nauvoo for that tour. Okay, so we're going to go to Missouri, Nauvoo, probably hit Springfield again. We'll get all the details up there. So you can go to the Lincoln Museum and the Lincoln Tomb and, you know, everything Lincoln.
Gerrit Hey, guys, I could really do it if you do it in early June. All right, Dave, well, we're going to move it just to try to keep you from being able to go. At Standard of Truth, we like to keep people guessing. For instance, we like to try to get them to guess when someone talked about adultery. We do a lot of guessing around here. So, yeah, we are going to be doing a little bit later than we have in the past, just so those people who haven't been able to go will have the ability to. And so we're planning on June 22nd through the 28th of 2025. And we're going to be going to Missouri and Nauvoo for that tour. Okay, so we're going to go to Missouri, Nauvoo, probably hit Springfield again. We'll get all the details up there. So you can go to the Lincoln Museum and the Lincoln Tomb and, you know, everything Lincoln.
Gerrit You're going to go see where the prophet of this last dispensation lived and where he was murdered. But the real, you know, we'll go to see Lincoln.
Gerrit You're going to go see where the prophet of this last dispensation lived and where he was murdered. But the real, you know, we'll go to see Lincoln.
Richard The greatest anti-Mormon president that's ever existed.
Richard The greatest anti-Mormon president that's ever existed.
Gerrit Well, he's not the greatest.
Gerrit Well, he's not the greatest.
Richard He's the greatest president.
Richard He's the greatest president.
Gerrit He's the greatest president and also signed the first anti-Mormon bill.
Gerrit He's the greatest president and also signed the first anti-Mormon bill.
Richard So that's what I meant. There's presidents that are more anti-Mormon, but there's no presidents that are better that are also anti-Mormon.
Richard So that's what I meant. There's presidents that are more anti-Mormon, but there's no presidents that are better that are also anti-Mormon.
Gerrit Yeah, because usually, you know, it's actually a pretty good corollary that the presidents who aren't very good also tend to be super anti-Mormon.
Gerrit Yeah, because usually, you know, it's actually a pretty good corollary that the presidents who aren't very good also tend to be super anti-Mormon.
Richard Except Lincoln.
Richard Except Lincoln.
Gerrit Like Martin Van Buret and James Buchanan. You know, James Buchanan is considered one of the worst presidents in American history on every historian survey.
Gerrit Like Martin Van Buret and James Buchanan. You know, James Buchanan is considered one of the worst presidents in American history on every historian survey.
Richard Yeah, well, so interesting fact, George Washington, not an anti-Mormon.
Richard Yeah, well, so interesting fact, George Washington, not an anti-Mormon.
Gerrit Yeah, although there are some, you know, probably poorly written books claiming that he basically was one and just hadn't been baptized yet. Don't worry, Wilfred Woodruff got him. He did, yeah.
Gerrit Yeah, although there are some, you know, probably poorly written books claiming that he basically was one and just hadn't been baptized yet. Don't worry, Wilfred Woodruff got him. He did, yeah.
Richard So, yeah, so we're hitting all the sites in going in June. We got a lot of folks have trouble with the first part of June. And so we are trying to adjust things a little bit. And this is the hottest part. So we are trying to go in June, but it will be the toward the end of June.
Richard So, yeah, so we're hitting all the sites in going in June. We got a lot of folks have trouble with the first part of June. And so we are trying to adjust things a little bit. And this is the hottest part. So we are trying to go in June, but it will be the toward the end of June.
Gerrit And then for the Baltimore Palmyra leg of things, we're looking at doing it between August 3rd and August 9th. So that week there, which is really the first full week in August. And hopefully that's before people's school has started back up. And I think it is for most people. I mean, not that most people are going around their school schedule, but we also have kids and school schedule.
Gerrit And then for the Baltimore Palmyra leg of things, we're looking at doing it between August 3rd and August 9th. So that week there, which is really the first full week in August. And hopefully that's before people's school has started back up. And I think it is for most people. I mean, not that most people are going around their school schedule, but we also have kids and school schedule.
Richard Well, I mean, our Litners skew a little younger maybe than the average. And so that we do get, it does become more of an issue.
Richard Well, I mean, our Litners skew a little younger maybe than the average. And so that we do get, it does become more of an issue.
Gerrit I mean, we had a lot of fun with the kids who came on our tour last time.
Gerrit I mean, we had a lot of fun with the kids who came on our tour last time.
Richard Yeah, it was a blast for sure.
Richard Yeah, it was a blast for sure.
Gerrit Between Taylor and Austin. We had a good time.
Gerrit Between Taylor and Austin. We had a good time.
Richard Yeah, the whole crew. The thing is, though, is that I think we're going to want... So the details of this are going to be available on the website shortly. We hope to be able to have this set up for folks being able to put down their deposit locking in their spot in the next couple of weeks, next month for sure, so that we'll be able to do that. Again, we fly into Baltimore, and then it's Palmyra and Kirtland.
Richard Yeah, the whole crew. The thing is, though, is that I think we're going to want... So the details of this are going to be available on the website shortly. We hope to be able to have this set up for folks being able to put down their deposit locking in their spot in the next couple of weeks, next month for sure, so that we'll be able to do that. Again, we fly into Baltimore, and then it's Palmyra and Kirtland.
Gerrit And then we fly home from Cleveland, unfortunately. Maybe we'll see if we can fly home from Columbus. We're going to see if we can go somewhere else.
Gerrit And then we fly home from Cleveland, unfortunately. Maybe we'll see if we can fly home from Columbus. We're going to see if we can go somewhere else.
Richard That does sound like a good idea, actually.
Richard That does sound like a good idea, actually.
Gerrit Cleveland Airport's just so terrible.
Gerrit Cleveland Airport's just so terrible.
Richard We have one more email. This is from Stephanie. She says, I've already sent a message to you about also having the great-great-great-grandfather, Jonathan Harriman Hale. But as I continue to listen to the two of you, and I do absolutely love the podcast, I realize we have yet another connection. I hate Missouri. Hate is a strong word, but no, I hate it. I keep telling people that I know I need to get over my disdain for that place, but it seems to be easier said than done. I've been listening to the podcast since April, and I'm up to August of 2023. That is a frantic pace, Stephanie.
Richard We have one more email. This is from Stephanie. She says, I've already sent a message to you about also having the great-great-great-grandfather, Jonathan Harriman Hale. But as I continue to listen to the two of you, and I do absolutely love the podcast, I realize we have yet another connection. I hate Missouri. Hate is a strong word, but no, I hate it. I keep telling people that I know I need to get over my disdain for that place, but it seems to be easier said than done. I've been listening to the podcast since April, and I'm up to August of 2023. That is a frantic pace, Stephanie.
Gerrit You are very much. Yeah, eventually you'll catch up, I guess. But boy, yeah.
Gerrit You are very much. Yeah, eventually you'll catch up, I guess. But boy, yeah.
Richard As soon as I got to the premium content I subscribed, I missed this year's tour, and I'm really hoping to do one next year, June 22nd through June 28th or August 3rd through June 9th. I think she had that in her email here before it was even announced. How about that?
Richard As soon as I got to the premium content I subscribed, I missed this year's tour, and I'm really hoping to do one next year, June 22nd through June 28th or August 3rd through June 9th. I think she had that in her email here before it was even announced. How about that?
Gerrit Oh, wow, wow. She wrote that in ahead of time. She predicted.
Gerrit Oh, wow, wow. She wrote that in ahead of time. She predicted.
Richard I didn't just read that that wasn't in her email.
Richard I didn't just read that that wasn't in her email.
Gerrit That's very interesting, because you wouldn't do that. I would never do that. You shameless self-promotion.
Gerrit That's very interesting, because you wouldn't do that. I would never do that. You shameless self-promotion.
Richard I would never put words in Stephanie's mouth. I have learned so much and enjoy both of your sense of humor. Thank you so much. PS. Which of Jonathan's children do you descend from? My great-great-grandfather is Alma Helaman Hale.
Richard I would never put words in Stephanie's mouth. I have learned so much and enjoy both of your sense of humor. Thank you so much. PS. Which of Jonathan's children do you descend from? My great-great-grandfather is Alma Helaman Hale.
Gerrit First of all, Stephanie, I don't know how close of cousins we are, but it's pretty close, because that's who I descend from is Alma Helaman Hale. I wonder which of Alma Helaman's children you descend from. I descend from Jonathan Harriman Hale. You have Jonathan Harriman Hale, and he has a son named Alma Helaman Hale, and Alma Helaman names a son after his dad, Jonathan Harriman Hale. So we're both from Alma Helaman Hale, and then I'm from Alma Helaman's son, Jonathan Harriman Hale.
Gerrit First of all, Stephanie, I don't know how close of cousins we are, but it's pretty close, because that's who I descend from is Alma Helaman Hale. I wonder which of Alma Helaman's children you descend from. I descend from Jonathan Harriman Hale. You have Jonathan Harriman Hale, and he has a son named Alma Helaman Hale, and Alma Helaman names a son after his dad, Jonathan Harriman Hale. So we're both from Alma Helaman Hale, and then I'm from Alma Helaman's son, Jonathan Harriman Hale.
Richard So this is interesting. I just had a conversation with my son in Spain, who's on his mission, and so his name is Richard Andrew LeDuc Jr. And I don't know how I was able to convince my wife of that. Richard is a brutal first name for people. It's becoming more and more unpopular by the second. Yeah.
Richard So this is interesting. I just had a conversation with my son in Spain, who's on his mission, and so his name is Richard Andrew LeDuc Jr. And I don't know how I was able to convince my wife of that. Richard is a brutal first name for people. It's becoming more and more unpopular by the second. Yeah.
Gerrit You can send Nixon for that.
Gerrit You can send Nixon for that.
Richard He's a junior, and I've told him that whoever he marries, if he's able to convince her that they name a son the third, that I will give them, I will pay them $10,000 for that. Whoa.
Richard He's a junior, and I've told him that whoever he marries, if he's able to convince her that they name a son the third, that I will give them, I will pay them $10,000 for that. Whoa.
Gerrit Yes.
Gerrit Yes.
Richard And then... Whoa. Yes, I know. It's a commitment that I've made. I've set the money aside to pay...
Richard And then... Whoa. Yes, I know. It's a commitment that I've made. I've set the money aside to pay...
Gerrit Well, I couldn't name one of my kids that and get the money.
Gerrit Well, I couldn't name one of my kids that and get the money.
Richard So it's funny that you say that, because then I also said, now I know to go down line to the fourth, I'm going to have to bring it. Now, I don't have the funds currently, but I would be willing to look at paying $50,000 for Richard Andrew LeDuc IV for my grandson. And then my daughter overheard me say that, my daughter who's 12. And she said, what if I have two kids and name one of them Richard Andrew LeDuc IV and one of them Richard Andrew LeDuc IV?
Richard So it's funny that you say that, because then I also said, now I know to go down line to the fourth, I'm going to have to bring it. Now, I don't have the funds currently, but I would be willing to look at paying $50,000 for Richard Andrew LeDuc IV for my grandson. And then my daughter overheard me say that, my daughter who's 12. And she said, what if I have two kids and name one of them Richard Andrew LeDuc IV and one of them Richard Andrew LeDuc IV?
Gerrit That's funny.
Gerrit That's funny.
Richard I said, that's funny, and you'd make $60,000.
Richard I said, that's funny, and you'd make $60,000.
Gerrit All right. You know what? I like that she's an entrepreneur.
Gerrit All right. You know what? I like that she's an entrepreneur.
Richard I do too. I love the fact that my name is so unpopular, I have to offer to pay people money to do it.
Richard I do too. I love the fact that my name is so unpopular, I have to offer to pay people money to do it.
Gerrit Yeah.
Richard But I'm willing.
Gerrit Yeah.
Richard But I'm willing.
Gerrit I mean, it's much the same as you have to offer people money to spend time with you. It's very similar.
Gerrit I mean, it's much the same as you have to offer people money to spend time with you. It's very similar.
Richard My relationship with my kids is based on that.
Richard My relationship with my kids is based on that.
Gerrit Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. Aren't they all? Especially when they become teenagers. They don't want to have anything to do with you until they need something. Then suddenly, you know what? Really be nice if I...
Gerrit Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. Aren't they all? Especially when they become teenagers. They don't want to have anything to do with you until they need something. Then suddenly, you know what? Really be nice if I...
Richard So anyway... Now on to baptism. Yes. Subject, there are no words in the scriptures with 19 letters, and can you explain the change in baptism prayer verbiage, please, to the esteemed doctor-ish Richard LeDuc? I love your show, and all of your animatronic actors are very well programmed. The one named, quote, Gerrit, amuses me greatly, despite his obvious evil favoredness. I am left to ponder if he operates using a series of electrified pulleys or wires, or if he is inwardly animated through the exertion of several tiny men. There's evidence for the latter on the landing page.
Richard So anyway... Now on to baptism. Yes. Subject, there are no words in the scriptures with 19 letters, and can you explain the change in baptism prayer verbiage, please, to the esteemed doctor-ish Richard LeDuc? I love your show, and all of your animatronic actors are very well programmed. The one named, quote, Gerrit, amuses me greatly, despite his obvious evil favoredness. I am left to ponder if he operates using a series of electrified pulleys or wires, or if he is inwardly animated through the exertion of several tiny men. There's evidence for the latter on the landing page.
Gerrit I'm essentially a Chuck E. Cheese performer, is what it sounds like.
Gerrit I'm essentially a Chuck E. Cheese performer, is what it sounds like.
Richard He's about to make that comment, actually, later on the landing page of the podcast where quote, Gerrit, quote, unquote, Gerrit is introduced as the host and then immediately referred to by the pronouns of the plural nature we and they. For now, however, I am operating under the assumption that he is a reupholstered renovation of an ill-gotten machine formerly employed at a certain rat-themed arcade pizza restaurant chain.
Richard He's about to make that comment, actually, later on the landing page of the podcast where quote, Gerrit, quote, unquote, Gerrit is introduced as the host and then immediately referred to by the pronouns of the plural nature we and they. For now, however, I am operating under the assumption that he is a reupholstered renovation of an ill-gotten machine formerly employed at a certain rat-themed arcade pizza restaurant chain.
Gerrit Wow.
Richard That's very good. To the point indeed, will you and your fine electromagnetic sidekick, please explain.
Gerrit Wow.
Richard That's very good. To the point indeed, will you and your fine electromagnetic sidekick, please explain.
Gerrit Electromagnetism, very good.
Gerrit Electromagnetism, very good.
Richard Explain why until 1835 or so, baptizers and authority given them of Jesus Christ as stated in the Book of Mormon, but somehow during the timeframe of the preparation of the 1835 Doctrine and Covenants, they were then commissioned of Jesus Christ. Where did this language originate and what are the implications of the different phrases? I have spent nearly several minutes researching this myself and cannot find any satisfactory explanation. Now, much like a slightly inconvenience, but morbidly obese raccoon desperately looking for meatballs in the dumpster behind an aforementioned creepy restaurant, I'm casting my lot on the hopes that you and this Gerrit will be able to provide some insight. Thank you very much for your assistance on this matter. I ever remain in your humble and obedient, I ever remain your humble and obedient servant. Not evil Rex, just regular Rex.
Richard Explain why until 1835 or so, baptizers and authority given them of Jesus Christ as stated in the Book of Mormon, but somehow during the timeframe of the preparation of the 1835 Doctrine and Covenants, they were then commissioned of Jesus Christ. Where did this language originate and what are the implications of the different phrases? I have spent nearly several minutes researching this myself and cannot find any satisfactory explanation. Now, much like a slightly inconvenience, but morbidly obese raccoon desperately looking for meatballs in the dumpster behind an aforementioned creepy restaurant, I'm casting my lot on the hopes that you and this Gerrit will be able to provide some insight. Thank you very much for your assistance on this matter. I ever remain in your humble and obedient, I ever remain your humble and obedient servant. Not evil Rex, just regular Rex.
Gerrit Okay. So who's evil Rex?
Gerrit Okay. So who's evil Rex?
Richard All other Rex's, apparently.
Richard All other Rex's, apparently.
Gerrit So maybe they're thinking about Rex's elders quorum president?
Gerrit So maybe they're thinking about Rex's elders quorum president?
Richard It's possibly Rex's elders quorum president, possibly Rex in effect.
Richard It's possibly Rex's elders quorum president, possibly Rex in effect.
Gerrit Right. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. I think most of our emailers are referencing some type of 90s rap group.
Gerrit Right. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. I think most of our emailers are referencing some type of 90s rap group.
Richard So anyway, it's an interesting point, the point about you being an animatronic robot versus this. But so, Gerrit, where does this language change? Why does it change? And why is the true church no longer true because it changed?
Richard So anyway, it's an interesting point, the point about you being an animatronic robot versus this. But so, Gerrit, where does this language change? Why does it change? And why is the true church no longer true because it changed?
Gerrit I don't think that he said that. But so it is obviously in the Book of Mormon, Jesus makes it very clear. He gives them this statement. And this is how you are going to baptize. When Oliver Cowdery and that one doesn't use the terminology commission, it says having authority given me. When the church is still before it hasn't been formed yet, in 1829 is when they begin to perform baptisms. And the document that they use to try to give some kind of form to what they're doing here is one that Joseph directs Oliver Cowdery to create. It's called the Articles of the Church of Christ. So it's something where Oliver Cowdery has gone through the Book of Mormon and pulled out the passages that relate to the formation of a church.
Gerrit I don't think that he said that. But so it is obviously in the Book of Mormon, Jesus makes it very clear. He gives them this statement. And this is how you are going to baptize. When Oliver Cowdery and that one doesn't use the terminology commission, it says having authority given me. When the church is still before it hasn't been formed yet, in 1829 is when they begin to perform baptisms. And the document that they use to try to give some kind of form to what they're doing here is one that Joseph directs Oliver Cowdery to create. It's called the Articles of the Church of Christ. So it's something where Oliver Cowdery has gone through the Book of Mormon and pulled out the passages that relate to the formation of a church.
Gerrit And he's created this document that kind of reads like a document of statement of faith of the church. So for instance, he says, this starts, a commandment from God and to Oliver how he should build up his church and the manner thereof, saying, Oliver, listen to the voice of Christ, your Lord, your God and your Redeemer, and write the words which I shall command you concerning my church, my gospel, my rock, my salvation. And then it goes on to use Book of Mormon language in order to explain these things. And in that one, it says, these are the words which you shall say, calling them by name, saying, having authority, given me of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Amen. And you shall immerse them in the water, and they shall come forth again out of the water. That's a direct quote from 3rd Nephi, that this is how you're going to baptize. And our Chuck E.
Gerrit And he's created this document that kind of reads like a document of statement of faith of the church. So for instance, he says, this starts, a commandment from God and to Oliver how he should build up his church and the manner thereof, saying, Oliver, listen to the voice of Christ, your Lord, your God and your Redeemer, and write the words which I shall command you concerning my church, my gospel, my rock, my salvation. And then it goes on to use Book of Mormon language in order to explain these things. And in that one, it says, these are the words which you shall say, calling them by name, saying, having authority, given me of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Amen. And you shall immerse them in the water, and they shall come forth again out of the water. That's a direct quote from 3rd Nephi, that this is how you're going to baptize. And our Chuck E.
Gerrit Cheese loving friend, Rex, is correct that when Joseph receives the Articles and Covenants of the Church, which is going to greatly expand upon, if it even uses what Oliver had here first in 1829, it will also include that phrasology. And so when that revelation is first published, it is going to have the terminology having authority of giving me of Jesus Christ. When it's first published in a scripture book to the Church, or I guess I should say, when they attempt to publish it for the Church, the way that it is first published in the Book of Commandments, so that's the 1833 publication of Doctrine and Covenants Section 20, what we call Doctrine and Covenants Section 20 now, Articles and Covenants of the Church, it says, verse 53, Having authority given me of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost.
Gerrit Cheese loving friend, Rex, is correct that when Joseph receives the Articles and Covenants of the Church, which is going to greatly expand upon, if it even uses what Oliver had here first in 1829, it will also include that phrasology. And so when that revelation is first published, it is going to have the terminology having authority of giving me of Jesus Christ. When it's first published in a scripture book to the Church, or I guess I should say, when they attempt to publish it for the Church, the way that it is first published in the Book of Commandments, so that's the 1833 publication of Doctrine and Covenants Section 20, what we call Doctrine and Covenants Section 20 now, Articles and Covenants of the Church, it says, verse 53, Having authority given me of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost.
Gerrit Amen. So honestly, Rex has really nailed it, that it's in between the publication of the Book of Commandments and the revision that was made to Revelations for the 1835 Doctrine and Covenants. So between 1833 and 1835, that phraseology is going to be changed until you get what you have in Doctrine and Covenants Section 20, although in the 1835 Doctrine and Covenants Section 20 is actually Section 2. And boy, the verses were huge, by the way. When they did the 1835 Doctrine and Covenants, they were like, you know what? If some future seminary student is going to have to memorize this, we want them to work for it. This is not going to be a walk in the park scripture mastery session. You are going to earn it. And the phraseology is, having been commissioned of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father and the Son and of the Holy Ghost.
Gerrit Amen. So honestly, Rex has really nailed it, that it's in between the publication of the Book of Commandments and the revision that was made to Revelations for the 1835 Doctrine and Covenants. So between 1833 and 1835, that phraseology is going to be changed until you get what you have in Doctrine and Covenants Section 20, although in the 1835 Doctrine and Covenants Section 20 is actually Section 2. And boy, the verses were huge, by the way. When they did the 1835 Doctrine and Covenants, they were like, you know what? If some future seminary student is going to have to memorize this, we want them to work for it. This is not going to be a walk in the park scripture mastery session. You are going to earn it. And the phraseology is, having been commissioned of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father and the Son and of the Holy Ghost.
Gerrit Now, why does this matter? Well, to me, outside of a historical curiosity, it doesn't really matter a whole lot. The fact of the matter is, there are many prayers, including even the sacrament prayer, that were not always administered in exactly the same way. We've all experienced changes in baptisms in our own life. I mean, we used to have only adult priesthood holders that could be witnesses of baptisms. And now an eight-year-old can be a witness of a baptism. Does that mean that all other previous baptisms are somehow not in force? I think the reason why this really comes to be a question is because there are those, and I'm not saying this about Rex, but maybe this is where he's heard this from someone.
Gerrit Now, why does this matter? Well, to me, outside of a historical curiosity, it doesn't really matter a whole lot. The fact of the matter is, there are many prayers, including even the sacrament prayer, that were not always administered in exactly the same way. We've all experienced changes in baptisms in our own life. I mean, we used to have only adult priesthood holders that could be witnesses of baptisms. And now an eight-year-old can be a witness of a baptism. Does that mean that all other previous baptisms are somehow not in force? I think the reason why this really comes to be a question is because there are those, and I'm not saying this about Rex, but maybe this is where he's heard this from someone.
Gerrit Inadvertently, I don't know. There are those who are leading apostate movements in the church today who will say things like, because the church isn't baptizing the way that baptisms were initially put out, that therefore the church's baptisms aren't actually valid. That you have to be baptized with the phraseology of having authority given me rather than having been commissioned by or of. The interesting part about that is that really it is a semantics game because what in the world does commission even mean in 1828? What does it mean in the 1828 dictionary? Charge, order, mandate or authority given.
Gerrit Inadvertently, I don't know. There are those who are leading apostate movements in the church today who will say things like, because the church isn't baptizing the way that baptisms were initially put out, that therefore the church's baptisms aren't actually valid. That you have to be baptized with the phraseology of having authority given me rather than having been commissioned by or of. The interesting part about that is that really it is a semantics game because what in the world does commission even mean in 1828? What does it mean in the 1828 dictionary? Charge, order, mandate or authority given.
Gerrit Okay, so that commission is to have authority given. So commission is another way of saying having authority. So having been commissioned of Jesus Christ or having authority of Jesus Christ. He asked what the difference is. I can't say why it is that Joseph Smith made that change, but my guess is that a commission, at least the way it's used in the early church, sounds much more like a higher authority is giving you the authority to baptize. Not just the fact that you have the priesthood. There are people all over this church who have the priesthood and have the ability, have the power to perform a baptism, but they don't have the right to perform a baptism, even with that priesthood authority, without the presiding authority giving them that permission.
Gerrit Okay, so that commission is to have authority given. So commission is another way of saying having authority. So having been commissioned of Jesus Christ or having authority of Jesus Christ. He asked what the difference is. I can't say why it is that Joseph Smith made that change, but my guess is that a commission, at least the way it's used in the early church, sounds much more like a higher authority is giving you the authority to baptize. Not just the fact that you have the priesthood. There are people all over this church who have the priesthood and have the ability, have the power to perform a baptism, but they don't have the right to perform a baptism, even with that priesthood authority, without the presiding authority giving them that permission.
Gerrit I might be an elder in the church. But because I'm an elder, I don't have the ability to just run around and baptize whoever I want, because the right of that, the commission of doing that comes through a structure. And it did in the Book of Mormon as well. There are those who are given authority to baptize, and they're told how they're going to baptize. Now, the apostate groups that cite this as proof that the baptisms are not accurate, they, of course, don't say, you know, that the change in wording was made by Joseph Smith. Usually these apostate groups are claiming, oh, if only the corporate church today were more like the church in Joseph Smith's time. If only we could get back to what Joseph Smith had. Joseph Smith's the real prophet, and all the other prophets are false prophets. Well, it's Joseph Smith who makes the change.
Gerrit I might be an elder in the church. But because I'm an elder, I don't have the ability to just run around and baptize whoever I want, because the right of that, the commission of doing that comes through a structure. And it did in the Book of Mormon as well. There are those who are given authority to baptize, and they're told how they're going to baptize. Now, the apostate groups that cite this as proof that the baptisms are not accurate, they, of course, don't say, you know, that the change in wording was made by Joseph Smith. Usually these apostate groups are claiming, oh, if only the corporate church today were more like the church in Joseph Smith's time. If only we could get back to what Joseph Smith had. Joseph Smith's the real prophet, and all the other prophets are false prophets. Well, it's Joseph Smith who makes the change.
Gerrit Just like Joseph Smith made dozens and dozens and dozens of changes to the original Book of Mormon. We've talked about those before. In particular, taking out, and it came to pass many, many, many times. But also changing the specificity of words so that when they were unclear about which deity was being mentioned, God or Jesus Christ, that it was clear in the Book of Mormon. So, I know that I say this all the time, but sometimes we have to remember that we aren't Protestants. We desperately want to be Protestants. We want to be Protestants more than anything else in the world. We want to treat Scripture as if it is something that is not only inerrant and unchanging, but that it holds precedence over literally everything.
Gerrit Just like Joseph Smith made dozens and dozens and dozens of changes to the original Book of Mormon. We've talked about those before. In particular, taking out, and it came to pass many, many, many times. But also changing the specificity of words so that when they were unclear about which deity was being mentioned, God or Jesus Christ, that it was clear in the Book of Mormon. So, I know that I say this all the time, but sometimes we have to remember that we aren't Protestants. We desperately want to be Protestants. We want to be Protestants more than anything else in the world. We want to treat Scripture as if it is something that is not only inerrant and unchanging, but that it holds precedence over literally everything.
Gerrit In fact, in the earliest days of the Church, surrounding Doctrine and Covenants, Section 20, though not that particular point, but on another point, there was nearly a gigantic schism. Just three months after the Church is organized, in April of 1830, Oliver Cowdery is going to take issue with Doctrine and Covenants, Section 20, with the Articles and Covenants of the Church. Not that point, but the point that said that those who wish to be baptized needed to bring forth fruits meet for repentance. That they had to demonstrate their repentance. Here's the exact phraseology. And truly manifest by their works that they have received the gift of Christ under the remission of their sins, then they shall be received unto baptism into the Church of Christ.
Gerrit In fact, in the earliest days of the Church, surrounding Doctrine and Covenants, Section 20, though not that particular point, but on another point, there was nearly a gigantic schism. Just three months after the Church is organized, in April of 1830, Oliver Cowdery is going to take issue with Doctrine and Covenants, Section 20, with the Articles and Covenants of the Church. Not that point, but the point that said that those who wish to be baptized needed to bring forth fruits meet for repentance. That they had to demonstrate their repentance. Here's the exact phraseology. And truly manifest by their works that they have received the gift of Christ under the remission of their sins, then they shall be received unto baptism into the Church of Christ.
Gerrit Oliver Cowdery was so upset at this as he contemplated it more, that that means people have to be repentant of their sins before they're baptized. They have to bring manifest by their works that they've changed. And he writes Joseph a letter and condemns Joseph, claiming that that part of the Revelation is an error. Why is it an error? One, it doesn't conform to Oliver Cowdery's worldview, which is still a very Protestant worldview that your works don't matter at all. But two, Oliver Cowdery thought that he was on an incredibly stable ground, a firm foundation, because all of the other passages in that verse were almost direct quotes from the Book of Mormon. And here, this revelation Joseph had received added to the requirements that the Book of Mormon gave.
Gerrit Oliver Cowdery was so upset at this as he contemplated it more, that that means people have to be repentant of their sins before they're baptized. They have to bring manifest by their works that they've changed. And he writes Joseph a letter and condemns Joseph, claiming that that part of the Revelation is an error. Why is it an error? One, it doesn't conform to Oliver Cowdery's worldview, which is still a very Protestant worldview that your works don't matter at all. But two, Oliver Cowdery thought that he was on an incredibly stable ground, a firm foundation, because all of the other passages in that verse were almost direct quotes from the Book of Mormon. And here, this revelation Joseph had received added to the requirements that the Book of Mormon gave.
Gerrit And so Cowdery writes Joseph and says, I command you in the name of God to erase those words, that there be no priestcraft among us. The implication, of course, being that if someone had to prove that they had stopped their sinful nature in order to get baptized, that would lead to priestcraft. And it's a pretty bold stance to take with Joseph. He's not just saying, hey Joseph, have you thought about this? He's commanding him to change what's written. And Joseph writes back and says, by what authority do you command me to change a revelation from God? God gave me these words by revelation. I don't just change them because you don't like them. I mean, Joseph doesn't say that, but that's essentially what he's saying. And so it's interesting that in the very first months of the church, people who didn't want to conform to the new doctrine that was being revealed, even as high as Oliver Cowdery, what did they do?
Gerrit And so Cowdery writes Joseph and says, I command you in the name of God to erase those words, that there be no priestcraft among us. The implication, of course, being that if someone had to prove that they had stopped their sinful nature in order to get baptized, that would lead to priestcraft. And it's a pretty bold stance to take with Joseph. He's not just saying, hey Joseph, have you thought about this? He's commanding him to change what's written. And Joseph writes back and says, by what authority do you command me to change a revelation from God? God gave me these words by revelation. I don't just change them because you don't like them. I mean, Joseph doesn't say that, but that's essentially what he's saying. And so it's interesting that in the very first months of the church, people who didn't want to conform to the new doctrine that was being revealed, even as high as Oliver Cowdery, what did they do?
Gerrit They fell back onto what they saw as more original wording and used that to attack the authorities of the church. This is going to repeat itself over and over and over and over and over again, all the way up to the present time, where every single general conference and every single new teaching that comes out from the church, you have someone saying, well, that's not how we did it in 1930. Well, that's not what it says in Isaiah. Well, I know that President Nelson said this, but that's not what President Woodruff said. We are not Protestants, just so everyone's aware. We don't believe that scriptures trump prophetic authority. We believe that the scriptures are true, and they are certainly true as guideposts for people's lives.
Gerrit They fell back onto what they saw as more original wording and used that to attack the authorities of the church. This is going to repeat itself over and over and over and over and over again, all the way up to the present time, where every single general conference and every single new teaching that comes out from the church, you have someone saying, well, that's not how we did it in 1930. Well, that's not what it says in Isaiah. Well, I know that President Nelson said this, but that's not what President Woodruff said. We are not Protestants, just so everyone's aware. We don't believe that scriptures trump prophetic authority. We believe that the scriptures are true, and they are certainly true as guideposts for people's lives.
Gerrit But if you're ever using the scriptures to argue that President Nelson isn't a prophet, well, then you've missed the point of the restoration, because the restoration wasn't just about the Book of Mormon, because the Book of Mormon doesn't say anything about eternal families or work for the dead. The restoration wasn't just about the Bible, because the Bible doesn't say anything about, or at least not in detail, the pre-mortal life. The restoration wasn't just about the Doctrine and Covenants, because it doesn't contain everything either. The restoration of the Gospel is having the Lord's Church upon the earth again, and part of the Lord's Church is having a prophet and a quorum of 12 apostles that receive revelation for the Church. If we believe the article of faith that says that God will yet reveal many great and important things, then that means of necessity.
Gerrit But if you're ever using the scriptures to argue that President Nelson isn't a prophet, well, then you've missed the point of the restoration, because the restoration wasn't just about the Book of Mormon, because the Book of Mormon doesn't say anything about eternal families or work for the dead. The restoration wasn't just about the Bible, because the Bible doesn't say anything about, or at least not in detail, the pre-mortal life. The restoration wasn't just about the Doctrine and Covenants, because it doesn't contain everything either. The restoration of the Gospel is having the Lord's Church upon the earth again, and part of the Lord's Church is having a prophet and a quorum of 12 apostles that receive revelation for the Church. If we believe the article of faith that says that God will yet reveal many great and important things, then that means of necessity.
Gerrit There are true things that are taught that weren't taught before. That there are things that are going to be revealed that we haven't always believed. What an odd claim it is to say that the same prophet who received the translation of the Book of Mormon by the gift and power of God, the only way you even know that Jesus did come to the Nephites is by the Prophet Joseph Smith. That that same prophet who you are holding up as your authority doesn't have the ability to receive further light and knowledge to change the phrasing of it, perhaps to comport more with the restoration of the Church in these latter days and the dispensation of the fullness of times. It's a crazy thing, but it's something that's been put up by apostates over and over and over and over again.
Gerrit There are true things that are taught that weren't taught before. That there are things that are going to be revealed that we haven't always believed. What an odd claim it is to say that the same prophet who received the translation of the Book of Mormon by the gift and power of God, the only way you even know that Jesus did come to the Nephites is by the Prophet Joseph Smith. That that same prophet who you are holding up as your authority doesn't have the ability to receive further light and knowledge to change the phrasing of it, perhaps to comport more with the restoration of the Church in these latter days and the dispensation of the fullness of times. It's a crazy thing, but it's something that's been put up by apostates over and over and over and over again.
Gerrit As Brigham Young once said, he would not be upset if Joseph should translate the Bible 40,000 times. And every time it would be different in some respects. Why? Because when God speaks to his people, he always speaks to them according to their current light and knowledge. We have to be desperately, desperately willing to follow the revelation that comes through current, modern prophets. If not, we've lost everything. I know I've gone on for a while. Richard's giving me the cut sign. He's throwing things at me. He's pretty disgusted right now with how long this is.
Gerrit As Brigham Young once said, he would not be upset if Joseph should translate the Bible 40,000 times. And every time it would be different in some respects. Why? Because when God speaks to his people, he always speaks to them according to their current light and knowledge. We have to be desperately, desperately willing to follow the revelation that comes through current, modern prophets. If not, we've lost everything. I know I've gone on for a while. Richard's giving me the cut sign. He's throwing things at me. He's pretty disgusted right now with how long this is.
Richard I mean, let's turn this into a two-parter. Let's add another 30 minutes and call it a day.
Richard I mean, let's turn this into a two-parter. Let's add another 30 minutes and call it a day.
Gerrit I could do another 30 minutes of ranting pretty easily. But let me just go back to one last thing that Brigham Young says that, of course, these modern apostates wouldn't be happy with anyway because Brigham Young said it. And that is in a meeting in which people were attacking Joseph for teaching doctrines that weren't contained in the Scriptures, holding up the Bible and the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants and setting them on the pulpit and on the table saying, this is where the doctrine comes from. Brigham Young is the one who says, yes, you have the Book of Mormon. Yes, you have the Bible. Yes, you have the Doctrine and Covenants. But I wouldn't give the ashes of rye straw for them if I didn't have a living oracle of God. And we can see that pretty quickly. Look at all of the groups that have rejected the current or past leadership of the church and formed their own schismatic group. How's that working out for them?
Gerrit I could do another 30 minutes of ranting pretty easily. But let me just go back to one last thing that Brigham Young says that, of course, these modern apostates wouldn't be happy with anyway because Brigham Young said it. And that is in a meeting in which people were attacking Joseph for teaching doctrines that weren't contained in the Scriptures, holding up the Bible and the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants and setting them on the pulpit and on the table saying, this is where the doctrine comes from. Brigham Young is the one who says, yes, you have the Book of Mormon. Yes, you have the Bible. Yes, you have the Doctrine and Covenants. But I wouldn't give the ashes of rye straw for them if I didn't have a living oracle of God. And we can see that pretty quickly. Look at all of the groups that have rejected the current or past leadership of the church and formed their own schismatic group. How's that working out for them?
Gerrit The reality is they almost instantly begin to abandon the things Joseph taught. In one of these same talks, this apostate leader says that we're not baptizing the right way. He also rejects the idea of Latter-day Saint, the extensiveness of Latter-day Saint temple worship and baptisms for the dead. Well, Joseph taught that too. The reality is someone who's trying to deceive will try to get back to the original phraseology of something as a way to try to prove that they're right. That only works if you're talking to a Protestant. It shouldn't work if you're talking to a member of the Kingdom of God on Earth, a Latter-day Saint in modern times. Because part of what we believe is what Joseph was told in Doctrine and Covenants, Section 5. This generation shall have my word through you.
Gerrit The reality is they almost instantly begin to abandon the things Joseph taught. In one of these same talks, this apostate leader says that we're not baptizing the right way. He also rejects the idea of Latter-day Saint, the extensiveness of Latter-day Saint temple worship and baptisms for the dead. Well, Joseph taught that too. The reality is someone who's trying to deceive will try to get back to the original phraseology of something as a way to try to prove that they're right. That only works if you're talking to a Protestant. It shouldn't work if you're talking to a member of the Kingdom of God on Earth, a Latter-day Saint in modern times. Because part of what we believe is what Joseph was told in Doctrine and Covenants, Section 5. This generation shall have my word through you.
Gerrit And then before someone says, yeah, well, that was Joseph and Joseph's gone. And so that's the reason why I'm like the new prophet and stuff. We can go to Doctrine and Covenants, Section 43, which at a time when people are claiming that, oh, actually, I've got revelation for the church, the Lord says, hearken, for behold, verily I say to you that you've received a commandment for a law unto my church through him whom I've appointed unto you to receive commandments and revelations from my hand. And this you may know assuredly that there is none other appointed unto you to receive commandments and revelations until he be taken if he abide in me. And verily, verily, I say to you that none else shall be appointed unto this gift except it be through him. For if it be taken from him, he shall not have power except to appoint another in his stead. And this shall be a law unto you that you receive not the teachings of any that come before you as revelations or commandments.
Gerrit And then before someone says, yeah, well, that was Joseph and Joseph's gone. And so that's the reason why I'm like the new prophet and stuff. We can go to Doctrine and Covenants, Section 43, which at a time when people are claiming that, oh, actually, I've got revelation for the church, the Lord says, hearken, for behold, verily I say to you that you've received a commandment for a law unto my church through him whom I've appointed unto you to receive commandments and revelations from my hand. And this you may know assuredly that there is none other appointed unto you to receive commandments and revelations until he be taken if he abide in me. And verily, verily, I say to you that none else shall be appointed unto this gift except it be through him. For if it be taken from him, he shall not have power except to appoint another in his stead. And this shall be a law unto you that you receive not the teachings of any that come before you as revelations or commandments.
Gerrit And this I give unto you that ye may not be deceived, that ye may know that they are not of me. For verily I say unto you that he is ordained of me shall come in at the gate and be ordained as I have told you before to teach those revelations which have been, which you shall have received and shall receive through him whom I have appointed. All of these groups, all of them claiming some kind of special insight, special spiritual experience, special understanding of the past, special. Special, special, special, special. None of them. None of them can follow D&C 43 and say that they have been ordained by the leader of the church to teach what they're teaching. No, all they can claim is, well, yeah, the church really lost their way. And luckily, you know, instead of God appearing to them, he appeared to me because, yeah, I mean, frankly, it's preposterous.
Gerrit And this I give unto you that ye may not be deceived, that ye may know that they are not of me. For verily I say unto you that he is ordained of me shall come in at the gate and be ordained as I have told you before to teach those revelations which have been, which you shall have received and shall receive through him whom I have appointed. All of these groups, all of them claiming some kind of special insight, special spiritual experience, special understanding of the past, special. Special, special, special, special. None of them. None of them can follow D&C 43 and say that they have been ordained by the leader of the church to teach what they're teaching. No, all they can claim is, well, yeah, the church really lost their way. And luckily, you know, instead of God appearing to them, he appeared to me because, yeah, I mean, frankly, it's preposterous.
Gerrit And the Lord gave us examples so that we don't get to see. So, Rex, I don't know, you know, where that question comes from. Not from you, obviously. But the reason why you hear people saying something like that is because someone is attempting to undermine the current church by claiming that the same prophet who received the text of the Book of Mormon wouldn't then have the same ability to receive God's amendation to the Doctrine and Covenants. And if they've got a problem with that, boy, I'll tell you what. There are a lot of sections in the Doctrine and Covenants and a lot of places in the Book of Mormon that Joseph Smith receives further inspired revisions to. We are not Protestants. We reverence the scriptures, but we belong to a true and living church whose head is the Lord Jesus Christ.
Gerrit And the Lord gave us examples so that we don't get to see. So, Rex, I don't know, you know, where that question comes from. Not from you, obviously. But the reason why you hear people saying something like that is because someone is attempting to undermine the current church by claiming that the same prophet who received the text of the Book of Mormon wouldn't then have the same ability to receive God's amendation to the Doctrine and Covenants. And if they've got a problem with that, boy, I'll tell you what. There are a lot of sections in the Doctrine and Covenants and a lot of places in the Book of Mormon that Joseph Smith receives further inspired revisions to. We are not Protestants. We reverence the scriptures, but we belong to a true and living church whose head is the Lord Jesus Christ.
Gerrit And he has chosen to have prophets and apostles lead the church, not somebody with a YouTube channel or someone who saw an angel last week. That's not how the church is led. So thank you so much for joining us. And we will talk to you again next week.
Gerrit And he has chosen to have prophets and apostles lead the church, not somebody with a YouTube channel or someone who saw an angel last week. That's not how the church is led. So thank you so much for joining us. And we will talk to you again next week.
Intro Thank you for listening to the Standard of Truth podcast, hosted by historian Dr. Gerrit Dirkmaat. If you know anybody that could benefit from the material in this episode, please share it with them. And for more resources, visit standardoftruth.com. Until next time.
Intro Thank you for listening to the Standard of Truth podcast, hosted by historian Dr. Gerrit Dirkmaat. If you know anybody that could benefit from the material in this episode, please share it with them. And for more resources, visit standardoftruth.com. Until next time.
Quote board
Make a share card from any lineYeah, we're opposed to committing adultery, but in favor of repentance.
Um, uh, let's say, um, I feel like I'm on a game show that I'm losing.
I love the fact that my name is so unpopular, I have to offer to pay people money to do it.
I'm essentially a Chuck E. Cheese performer, is what it sounds like.
We desperately want to be Protestants. We want to be Protestants more than anything else in the world.
We don't believe that scriptures trump prophetic authority.
The restoration of the Gospel is having the Lord's Church upon the earth again, and part of the Lord's Church is having a prophet and a quorum of 12 apostles that receive revelation for the Church.
Because when God speaks to his people, he always speaks to them according to their current light and knowledge.
We reverence the scriptures, but we belong to a true and living church whose head is the Lord Jesus Christ.
Source shelf
17 sources cited on air · verses link to the scriptures, Joseph Smith’s documents to the Joseph Smith Paperssermon
Gordon B. Hinckley, April 1991 general conference address (title not named on air)
Richard's tongue-in-cheek summary of the talk on adultery: shouldn't do it.
other
Crack research staff count of general conference talks mentioning adultery, 1850 to today
295 talks, about 16.4 per decade, with spikes in the 1940s (27), 1960s (32) and 1970s (53).
sermon
Orson Pratt, 1852 general conference talk
The first talk in the count to mention adultery, which Gerrit knew right away.
sermon
Dallin H. Oaks, 2023 general conference talk
The most recent apostle or First Presidency member in the count to mention adultery.
book
Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness
Gerrit's reaction on learning Kimball mentioned adultery in conference more than anyone.
scripture
3 Nephi 11 (identified, not cited on air)
Jesus gives the Nephites the baptismal words "having authority given me of Jesus Christ."
record
Oliver Cowdery, Articles of the Church of Christ (1829)
having authority, given me of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost.
Oliver's statement drawn from Book of Mormon passages, using the 3 Nephi wording.
book
Book of Commandments (1833), Articles and Covenants (now D&C 20), verse 53
Having authority given me of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost.
The first published form still used "having authority given me."
book
1835 Doctrine and Covenants, Section 2 (now D&C 20:73)
having been commissioned of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father and the Son and of the Holy Ghost.
The wording changed between 1833 and 1835 to "commissioned."
book
1828 Webster's dictionary, "commission"
Charge, order, mandate or authority given.
Shows that "commissioned" meant having authority given.
revelation
D&C 20:37
And truly manifest by their works that they have received the gift of Christ under the remission of their sins, then they shall be received unto baptism into the Church of Christ.
The passage Oliver Cowdery objected to in 1830.
letter
Oliver Cowdery to Joseph Smith, 1830
I command you in the name of God to erase those words, that there be no priestcraft among us.
Oliver commanded Joseph to erase the line; Joseph asked by what authority he commanded a revelation be changed.
scripture
Articles of Faith 1:9
God will yet reveal many great and important things, so some true things weren't taught before.
sermon
Brigham Young, on Joseph translating the Bible 40,000 times (source not named on air)
he would not be upset if Joseph should translate the Bible 40,000 times.
God speaks to His people according to their current light and knowledge.
sermon
Brigham Young, on the need for a living oracle (meeting not named on air)
But I wouldn't give the ashes of rye straw for them if I didn't have a living oracle of God.
Said in a meeting where people held up the scriptures against Joseph's new teachings.
revelation
D&C 5:10
This generation shall have my word through you.
The Lord tells Joseph his generation will receive the word through him.
revelation
D&C 43:2-7
And this I give unto you that ye may not be deceived, that ye may know that they are not of me.
Given when others claimed revelation for the Church; only the one appointed receives it.
Episode quiz
Pass to stamp your passportQuestion 1 of 8Score 0
How many general conference talks since 1850 mention adultery, by Richard's count?
Fun with Numbers
This episode, counted from its transcript52:00long
26.1 minbefore the topic starts
17sources read or named
5scripture passages
10different years mentioned
5dollar amounts said
From 1828 to 1991
Every year mentioned in the episode. Tap one to jump to it.
Money said on air
Percentages said on air
Putting numbers to words
All 7,537 words of the automatic transcript, counted against a word list for each theme. It shows how much a theme comes up, not what was said about it. See the lists
What this episode talks about more than usual
- Critics and hard questions12 mentions, 4.0 times the show’s usual rate
- Temples and ordinances30 mentions, 2.9 times the show’s usual rate
- Scripture31 mentions, 2.0 times the show’s usual rate
Names said most
Joseph counts any Joseph.
Joseph 28Jesus Christ 18Oliver Cowdery 12Brigham Young 8Abraham Lincoln 5Wilford Woodruff 2
Signature words
Said often here and in few other episodes.
commission 6descend 4commissioned 4
More from this episode
Claim checkThings people say, and what the episode shows.
Claim check
What critics say, and what the episode foundThe Church's baptisms are invalid because the prayer no longer says "having authority given me of Jesus Christ."
If wording in scripture changed, the Church must have drifted from the original truth.
Take it to classReady to use in a lesson or a talk.
Take it to class
Ready to copy into a lesson or a textThe baptismal prayer changed from "having authority given me" to "having been commissioned" under Joseph Smith, between the 1833 Book of Commandments and the 1835 Doctrine and Covenants.
In 1828, a commission meant authority given; the right to baptize comes through those who preside, not just through holding the priesthood.
We reverence the scriptures, but the Restoration is a living Church led by prophets and apostles who receive revelation.
D&C 43 teaches that revelation for the Church comes only through the one the Lord appoints, not through a YouTube channel or someone who saw an angel last week.
Banter binThe funniest moments in this episode.
Banter bin
The running jokes, for people who skip aheadFun With AdulteryRichard's numbers segment, named after his Gospel Doctrine "Fun With" slides, with Fun With Feastus and a possible Fun With Fornication (1:51, 3:27, 4:38).
The crack research staffCounting every conference talk on adultery since 1850, by decade and by speaker (3:46).
The Olive Garden game showRichard offers a $50 Olive Garden gift card if Gerrit names the top five; Gerrit loses and Richard keeps it for next time (14:32, 15:42).
Gerrit doesn't do modernIf it's not 100 years ago, he doesn't pay attention, yet nails Orson Pratt in 1852 (6:01, 6:39).
Richard Andrew LeDuc IIIRichard offers $10,000 for a grandson named the third and $50,000 for the fourth; his 12-year-old daughter plans for $60,000 (24:07, 25:01).
Lincoln, the greatest anti-Mormon presidentThe greatest president who also signed the first anti-Mormon bill (19:25).
Cleveland AirportGerrit hopes the 2025 tour can fly home from anywhere else (21:48).
Chuck E. Cheese GerritRex's email casts Gerrit as an animatronic run by tiny men, and asks about evil Rex (26:08, 28:14).
The Phebe Draper Palmer Brown MailbagSend Gerrit and Richard your question.
The Phebe Draper Palmer Brown Mailbag
Your question could be next week’s episodeQuestions from Litners drive a lot of episodes. Send yours. If it makes the show, Richard reads it on air.
General ConferenceGeneral Conference talks that cite a scripture read in this episode.
In General Conference
Talks from the latest General Conference that cite a scripture this episode reads or names on airOctober 2026 General Conference · cites D&C 20Divine AppointmentsPresident Timothy L. FarnesPresident Farnes recalls a discouraging day as a young priesthood leader when then-Elder Dallin H.October 2026 General Conference · cites D&C 20Spiritual ImmunityElder Christian C. ChigbunduElder Chigbundu, recalling the talk of "immunity" during the COVID-19 pandemic, describes building spiritual immunity through four small and simple things: scripture study, prayer, the sacrament, and keeping covenants, including temple worship.October 2026 General Conference · cites D&C 2The Infinite Power of God in Our CovenantsElder Jeremiah J. MorganElder Morgan grew up in another church that also believes in the Book of Mormon, where his single mother read it to him daily.
Summaries, themes and lessons for every talk are on What Did They Say?
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Deep dives the episode points towardOliver Cowdery's 1829 Articles of the Church of Christ and how they drew on 3 Nephi (29:58).
Comparing the Book of Commandments with the 1835 Doctrine and Covenants, revelation by revelation (32:12).
Oliver Cowdery's 1830 letter about D&C 20 and Joseph's reply (38:31).
D&C 43 and how the early Church dealt with members claiming revelation for the whole Church (48:09).
SOT Litner · S4E27.