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Upset weekend
S4E41 · Six Days in August
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Standard of Truth · Season 4 · Episode 41 · 1:11:49

Six Days in August

When Sidney Rigdon claimed the right to lead the Church as a member of the First Presidency, the only other surviving member, Amasa Lyman, stood up and said that neither of them had that right.

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The question ·

With the film Six Days in August coming out, what is it about, and what was going on in the Church at that time?

Richard

The week after general conference, Richard reads a flood of mailbag emails about the surprise Milwaukee, Wisconsin temple, starting with Branson's friends betting Sour Patch Kids on how many temples would be announced, and Gerrit tears up over the faith of the members where he served his mission. Richard plays Fun with General Conference, with word counts and themes from his own transcripts of every talk. Then, ahead of the film Six Days in August, Gerrit reads Wilford Woodruff's journal from August 1844: the apostles come home, Sidney Rigdon offers "a kind of second class vision," Brigham Young says no one can stand between the Twelve and Joseph, and Amasa Lyman backs the Twelve. Gerrit closes with why Brigham Young matters: the temple ordinances we treasure came through him.

Who comes upRussell M. NelsonGordon B. HinckleyWilford WoodruffHeber C. KimballJohn TaylorWillard RichardsSidney RigdonBrigham YoungAmasa LymanWilliam LawJohn C. BennettOrson Pratt
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Upset weekend

Oklahoma State loses again, and Vanderbilt beats a top-ranked Alabama.

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Transcript

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Intro Welcome to the Standard of Truth Podcast. In this podcast, Dr. Gerrit Dirkmaat and Professor Richard LeDuc explore the early history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the life and teachings of Prophet Joseph Smith. They examine the original historical sources and provide context for events of the past. They approach the history of the Church with faith, expertise, and humor.
Gerrit Hi, welcome to another episode of the Standard Truth Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Gerrit Dirkmaat, and I'm joined by my friend, now even sadder as Oklahoma State has dropped yet another game, Professor Richard LeDuc.
Richard They got whooped by West Virginia. Hello, Gerrit.
Gerrit I thought they would perform better. I thought that would be a bounce back game for them. But apparently the bounce back was them being pummeled on the floor like a basketball being dribbled.
Richard Well, Gerrit, Alabama loses. Miami probably should have, but the ACC refs really, I had a friend texting me, the ACC really wants them in the playoff. Alabama loses, Tennessee loses, USC loses. It was an upset galore, Gerrit. It was a fantastic conference weekend. That's what we're talking about.
Gerrit The Vanderbilt, Alabama, I mean, they haven't beaten Alabama in 40 years. Forty years.
Richard Yeah.
Gerrit Yeah. When they did beat Alabama, that was this super down year for Alabama where they lost six games and one of them was to Vanderbilt. Vanderbilt, as a school, has never even beaten a team in the top five, never. They've never beaten a team in the top five in the history of their school, let alone the number one team in the nation.
Richard It was a fun game. I watched it. It was exciting. Gerrit, this is a, we hope that everyone had a lovely, obviously, conference weekend last weekend as we heard from the general authorities and officers of the church. It was a grand old time. We are going to be playing a game Fun with General Conference. Our game Fun with Adultery was very popular.
Gerrit I think it's hard to beat Fun with Adultery. That's the problem.
Richard That is the problem. Your boy, Falastus Hurlbut, always said that.
Gerrit Well, I think he just said it's hard to stop committing adultery.
Richard On my mission.
Gerrit Yeah. Also for the rest of my life after that.
Richard Well, so the temple announcements were very exciting. And we have received many e-mails from first of all, every P-Day we get on a Monday, we just get a slew of missionary e-mails. I think this Monday, we got like 50 to 9,000 missionary e-mails.
Gerrit You can tell that most missionaries have P-Day on Monday. And it's on Monday that they sit there and go, wow, there has to be something better than this. I know the Standard of Truth podcast.
Richard Yeah, when there's nothing else to do, it's okay. As my son on a mission in Lima, Peru says. Well, so we received a gajillion missionary e-mails and then we received also many, many Wisconsin Temple e-mails, Gerrit. It's very exciting.
Gerrit It was incredible.
Richard But I will kick off with the first from the Phebe Draper Palmer Brown mailbag. We got it. Received an e-mail from Branson.
Gerrit Not the city, but a person.
Richard Perhaps both. Actually, perhaps I like to believe that this came from the city.
Gerrit That the city was like, you know what? Do better.
Richard They're like, we like the Osmonds, we like your podcast, we like everything you guys are about. The subject is, you've created a degenerate gambler. It says, hey, I've got nothing important to say, but thanks for talking about my e-mail earlier. He wrote in about Paul Bunyan writing the Book of Mormon. Also, my friends and I just placed bets on how.
Gerrit It wasn't John Bunyan.
Richard It wasn't actually Paul Bunyan. He said Paul Bunyan here. Okay. Yes. It was not. It was actually Babe that wrote the Book of Mormon.
Gerrit It was Babe the Blue Ox. That's the reason why it seems like there's different voices.
Richard One of the voice of Paul, one of the voice of Babe. He says, also, my friends and I just placed bets on how many temples the Brethren would announce at the end of General Conference today. Now, he sent this to us before the conference started, right? Well, before the last session ended, it was at 12:25 PM is when he sent it. He's calling his shot here. He's Babe Ruth pointing at the fence with the bat, and then grounding out a single. Placing the bet on how many temples the Brethren would announce. Now, first of all, before I, we would like to get very strongly on the record how much we support President Hinckley's April 2005 Conference Address on Gambling, especially on the number of temples that will be announced by the Prophet. I feel like that's very important to get that on the record.
Gerrit Yeah, we have a strong stance that you shouldn't be gambling at all, and gambling on the number of temples to be announced, it really is a level of degeneracy that would make the Israelites who built the Golden Calf Blush.
Richard You're betting first quarter NBA overs. You're betting first quarter G-League.
Gerrit You're betting pre-season WNBA who scores first. That's what you're doing at that point.
Richard You're not getting that on FanDuel. You're going to a guy behind some sort of Union Hall, or perhaps, I can only imagine some greyhound racetrack to be able to get those kinds of odds. We set the over-under at 12.5. Now, first off, who do you think is the prophet? Heber J. Grant?
Gerrit Yeah, 12.5. 12.5. Who set that line? My guys would not have set that line. It's President Nelson. My guys would have set that line at 15-easy. 15-easy.
Richard Yeah, no. Standing on his head, he's going to do that. Look, he's the prophet for just even a couple more conferences. He's going to do over 3,000 temples. What are you talking about? 12.5.
Gerrit He's just putting temples out every other day. Yeah, 12.5 ain't going to work.
Richard It is not. Most people took the under, but I took the over. I see my gambling is faith promoted because I believe that there's going to be even more temples. Because I think there will be a lot of temples. Don't worry, we're not betting with money, only Sour Patch Kids.
Gerrit Well, that at least makes me feel somewhat better.
Richard Well, I don't know, Gerrit, as we learn in the New Testament, you don't have to just commit adultery. You just have to lust after a woman, and it's the same as committing it in your heart. I feel like it's actually, in this case, worse that they use Sour Patch Kids.
Gerrit Right. So it would be better if it was actual money changing hands. Not so much in the temple, but about the temple.
Richard He did say, thanks for teaching me about gambling, Branson. This is very funny, Branson. It's very, very funny. So we did receive a gajillion emails that are so excited about Wisconsin. Gerrit, we'll just get into those here. This first one comes to us from Nathan. Dear Dr. Dirkmaat and yet to be Dr. Professor laduke, no question today. I just got so excited yesterday for the one convert in Wisconsin that got their own temple. That's amazing and I want to know what it takes. It's amazing and want to know what it takes to get my own anyway. I hope you guys have a great conference and can't wait to the next episode on the Standard of Truth on Thursday. Have a great week. Thank you, Nathan. It's very nice. This next one comes from Brooklyn. Yay, Wisconsin gets a temple. Wisconsin has never received so much love anywhere in the history of ever anywhere. Yeah.
Gerrit It shows that our listeners have heard me talk about the difficulties of serving there as a missionary, and the four people that are members there. Yes, they now all have a temple.
Richard Well, we did an episode. By the way, one thing that Gerrit has talked about with me that we need to do is we need to start putting numbers or episode numbers to them so they make them easier to find as we reference them. We're going to be getting our crack staff all over that to be able to do that. But two years ago, you did one after much tribulation comes the reward, comes the blessing. And so that part of the reason that people are so excited is because of how hard the Wisconsin mission was. And now how awesome it is that they're getting a temple.
Gerrit So it is pretty awesome.
Richard Yay, Wisconsin gets a temple. Congrats, Gerrit. It's funny. Congrats, Gerrit.
Gerrit Yeah, it was all me. Uh, Paul watered Apollo's. But actually, no, there was there was no watering. There was it was. I have nothing to do with this.
Richard Your hard work paid off. And the people of Wisconsin are going to get a temple. If we placed bets, I mean, we need to get Brooklyn in contact with the brand that Branson has. If we place bets, which we don't because you know, President Hinckley, I would say you get called to that temple as a senior missionary because you need, they need your help. Sorry, San Diego, Wisconsin gets Gerrit and Angie or needs Gerrit and Angie more. Guess you better add a stop to milwaukee on your tour in a few years. Keep up the good work. So that's very nice. It's not too far from Nauvoo.
Gerrit That might be somewhat disappointing to the people like, we're going to go to Nauvoo, we're going to go to Carthage, we're going to go to milwaukee. I don't know if that's getting more people on the bus.
Richard Very nice, Brooklyn. This next one comes to us from-
Gerrit Of course, the problem is- I was going to say the real problem if you take a bus to Wisconsin, is all the people trying to get on the bus to get out. You stop there, you get off with 30 people, 60 people get on. You're heading somewhere else?
Intro All right.
Richard Hey guys, this one comes to us from Stephanie. Hey guys, this email is just to boost your numbers. On your next episode, when you talk about the legion of emails that came in to harass Brother Dirkmaat about the announcement of the Temple in Wisconsin, where there are no members, you'll have another email for that tally. I am a team player like that. Stay classy, Stephanie. It's very nice.
Gerrit That's hilarious.
Richard This one comes to us from Emma. Dr. Kurtmatt and Professor LeDuc.
Gerrit I'm assuming it's a play on my name, Kirkmaat.
Richard I like to think that it's not. I like to think that it's just another way to pronounce your name.
Gerrit Well, the D and the K are so close to each other on the keyboard.
Richard They're right next to each other. They're right next.
Gerrit There's far apart if they could get on the keyboard.
Richard So I said F, a G, an H, and a J in the way. My husband and I are the two downloads from Wisconsin and love the podcast. Yes, there are members in Wisconsin, but we're the only two that I know of.
Gerrit Oh, that's hilarious.
Richard I'm originally from Green Bay, Wisconsin, and although my husband is from Washington, he now lives near milwaukee, Wisconsin with me and actually loves it. I just want to thank you for your faithful service as a missionary in Wisconsin all those many years ago. Because of missionaries like you, we are now getting a temple, and I'm sure you were just as surprised as we were to hear the announcement. As my father-in-law said, the Second Coming must be close if milwaukee is getting a temple.
Gerrit That's funny.
Richard No question for you, but thank you for making such a great podcast. Although, I will mostly likely never pay for a subscription. Hashtag young parents that need diaper money. The free episodes have truly helped strengthen my testimony. I wish I had more sassy comments to add. You would read my email. I usually am full of sass, but I'm writing this immediately after the last session of conference. Still in shock, and you were one of the first people I thought of. Thank you for all you do, Emma. That's very, very nice.
Gerrit That's hilarious. I actually received a text from a listener that said something pretty similar. It was before conference ever started, and they sent a text. This was from Mark or Coach. He likes to go by Coach. He essentially said, what are the odds of Wisconsin getting a temple? I, holding no apostolic or prophetic keys, I said, it would be evidence that global climate change is certainly real because hell is certainly freezing over. That's what I had said. Now, that may not be the most faith-filled thing. I mean, at least Branson is betting the over. I, instead, was like, there's no way. They won't put what they...
Richard You know what? I'm with gambling degenerate Branson, actually, now. I'm again, I turned on you and I'm with Branson.
Gerrit I feel like that's the case. We should probably get me off this podcast and have Branson on it.
Richard Well, if we want it to be faith-filled, yeah.
Gerrit But it is funny that her father-in-law said, the Second Coming must be close to milwaukee's getting a temple. milwaukee was the place that had the most members in the state, and so it makes sense to have it there. I mean, it would be more centrally located if they built it in Madison because more central to the rest of the state, but there's just more members in milwaukee, and so that makes sense. But yeah, I'm overjoyed, honestly. I was stunned. My mouth was wide open when they said it, and I was like, are you sure you don't mean, you're sure President Nelson wasn't asking for a milwaukee drill, or that he was trying to say that he wanted a, whatchamacallit candy bar, and that it came out milwaukee, but it was awesome. In fact, we got another email from someone that I know, that I have not talked to for a very long time.
Gerrit This is from Steven. Dear Dr. Dirkmaat and Professor LeDuc, I wanted to write and thank you for all the work you put into the Standard of Truth episodes. I really appreciate what I have learned for the past few months. I too am a missionary who served in Wisconsin. I never baptized anyone I taught. I wish I could say that. I mean, this is me commenting now. This isn't the letter. I wish I could say that he's the only missionary. I know that that's the case, but that was actually fairly regular. Those I did teach were baptized by someone else in the war. I came home very discouraged. My father, who was the first missionary to receive a visa to serve full time in the Philippines as part of the Southern Far East Mission, had told me stories from my child that have countless families that he taught and baptized, and I made the mistake of comparing my mission.
Gerrit Several years later, when I graduated with my master's degree in 2009, the Great Recession was in full swing. I applied for a lot of jobs and the first real offer that came in was from Iron Mountain, Michigan. Now, if you don't know, Iron Mountain was part of the Wisconsin mission, it's in the upper peninsula of Michigan, that's physically attached to Wisconsin, but is part of Michigan, the state, for reasons that you'd have to go back to several early American treaties to explain. So you said, I came with Iron Mountain, Michigan. My wife, two kids and I packed up and moved the 2,000 miles away from Arizona. Wow. You moved from Arizona to the upper peninsula of Michigan. I, there's not just culture shock. You, I'm surprised you didn't die of hypothermia. I don't know how your body reacted to that. We were welcomed wholeheartedly by the 30 active members there. To my surprise, we shared one set of elders with the Escanaba and Marionette congregations.
Gerrit Uh, there was not enough missionary work to have one full time set in any of those units. This meant that the branch members had to do most of the missionary work. My wife and I worked together on every assignment we were given. In one year, we had about 18 people get baptized. Wow. If you don't know what Wisconsin and the Upper Peninsula of Michigan is like, you don't appreciate what that number 18 is. That is stunning to me. We had months in the milwaukee, Wisconsin mission where we baptized as a mission with over 200 missionaries in it. We baptized 18 people.
Richard What?
Gerrit Yeah.
Richard Are you serious?
Gerrit There were times.
Richard Are you serious, Clark?
Gerrit Yeah. There were times. I mean, look, there were times that we baptized 100 people as a mission, but there were times that we baptized 20 and 30. Wow. So that's crazy. Wow. In one year, we had 18 people get baptized. The missionaries had 50 referrals that they needed to contact in order to do that. We once again had a full-time set of elders. My family did not stay long after that. It was too frigid for my wife's liking, of course.
Richard I bet.
Gerrit I transferred to Louisville, Kentucky. Before we left, we heard the missionaries in milwaukee in 2010 had a family history booth at a Polish festival. Oh, that's a good move. Some missionaries are playing chess while others are playing checkers. That is a good move. Those are big deal. In one weekend, they had 600 referrals. I can see why the temple was announced to be in milwaukee. I just wanted you to know that I have a testimony that the Lord knows us personally. He wanted me to have one more year in the Wisconsin mission, but with the companion of my choice, my wife. It was what I needed to know how to be a member missionary where I live. I work for NASA now in California. But before you start telling people that you know people in high places, I'm not an astronaut. Dr. Dirkmaat, it will have been 25 years this fall when we first crossed paths. Then he, to prove the point, attached a picture of us together on our mission. He was an elder on the mission when I was on the mission.
Gerrit You may not have realized how much of an impact you left on the mission after your two years ended. One of those impacts was your chastity talk that was recorded onto cassettes. You may wonder why am I spending so much time trying to convince the missionaries to obey the law of chess? You know what? You do what you have to do. I had at least one to two preparation days where my district was playing the game of risk and we were trying to conquer the world and one elder would insist that he play your hour long talk. I'm curious if your chastity talk is on the podcast Premium Content. I'm going to subscribe to find out. Well, I'm going to wait till you subscribe to tell you no. He goes on to ask a church history question that we might answer in another episode, but that's pretty awesome. What a great example of someone who persevered and didn't just say, oh, my mission was useless and come back to the area saying, oh, it's useless, instead comes back, shares the gospel and just crushes it.
Gerrit That's incredible. So thank you, Steven, for sending that in.
Richard So I am curious about your chastity talk. It was an hour long chastity talk that you gave on your mission.
Gerrit I feel like sitting there saying like, guys, stop. Stop being adultery. I need you to stop. Don't be, I should have titled it like, don't be full asses hurlbugs.
Richard That's great. So it's just an hour of you saying, guys, knock it off. Come on, guys.
Gerrit Come on, guys. Come on, come on. No, I'm sure it was not very good. And I would be horrified now to hear how idiotic I sounded, which is different than hearing how idiotic I sound now.
Richard Very different. Well, so we will post.
Gerrit There are various levels of idiocy.
Richard I will post. I'll put it in a Google Drive, but make it publicly available. I'll put it in the description. You look exactly like your son, Kai, spitting image.
Gerrit Yeah. Well, only he's more attractive and athletic than me. Everywhere we go to volleyball and basketball tournaments with Kai, because he's a junior in high school. And legit, just about every weekend that we go somewhere, some random teenage girl will come up, even when he's with his parents, which should be like, that should immediately dissuade you, you think. Nope. We'll walk up and ask for his phone number. So I've got problems here in River City when it comes to my son.
Richard That's interesting. I did not have that problem in high school. I'm unfamiliar with it.
Gerrit So you didn't just randomly have women from other high schools come up and say, Hey, what's your number?
Richard I can say for sure that that never happened. Yeah.
Gerrit Okay. Well, it's good to know. Good to know.
Richard Yeah.
Gerrit Well, it happens for Kai.
Richard I have a great line about that. It's a funny joke. I don't know that it's appropriate to share here, but it's a very funny joke. Just trust me. It's funny. I'll tell you later. Anyway, so Gerrit, if we are now ready for Fun with General Conference, are you ready?
Gerrit I literally have no idea what you mean, and so I'm going in blind.
Richard Well, so I went through, because the church takes a couple of days to go in and to provide all of the written talks that are there with all the references and everything, and I couldn't be bothered to wait. So I took all of the conference addresses, and I put them through and created transcripts for all of them, and then went through to analyze a couple of different things, and I thought it would be fun.
Gerrit Okay. So whatever you're about to ask me, I'm going to fail miserably at.
Richard I don't know. So there's one, this one's just not that important really, and then there's one that was talked about in conference, and I think you're going to get close to it, and the other is just general themes from General Conference based on transcript analysis.
Gerrit Okay. So you're making word clouds.
Richard I mean, yeah.
Gerrit Are you selling them on Etsy?
Richard I already have.
Gerrit Okay. Good.
Richard I actually did send them to our bishopric and say, hey, this is kind of cool. Look at this.
Gerrit They didn't respond at all?
Richard No. They're like, this is stupid. We hate you. I'm kidding. I don't know if that's. Anyway, so Gerrit, this is one in terms of the word cloud, because themes is one thing, but word cloud, right? So the top 10 words that were referenced in General Conference. Like I said, a couple of these are obvious layups, right? So what do you think?
Gerrit So we're not including articles like the and stuff like that, right?
Richard No, no, no. This is not a trick. It's not no ands or thes or ofs.
Gerrit Well, well, Jesus is going to be the number one.
Richard It's number one. Three hundred and seventy two times that it was referenced.
Gerrit I mean, there's going to be others like Book of Mormon.
Richard No, didn't make the cut.
Gerrit Didn't make the top 10?
Richard Did not make the top 10. Book of Mormon. So Book of Mormon. So think about like how many times does a person say Book of Mormon?
Gerrit No, they usually just say from the scriptures. So scriptures.
Richard Yeah, or something, right? Yeah.
Gerrit Where scripture's at on that list?
Richard It's not in the top 10.
Gerrit Wow. Okay. Okay. How about love?
Richard Love came in at number 10. 118 mentions.
Gerrit Okay. All right.
Richard There you go. Look at you.
Gerrit How about profit?
Richard Profit was in the top 20, but didn't make president and profit were in the top 20, I believe, but didn't make the top 10.
Gerrit Okay. How about joy?
Richard That came in tied for number 8 with Savior at 135. A lot of mentions of joy in this General Conference.
Gerrit A lot. Okay. How about repentance?
Richard Repentance? No. And I'll go ahead and just tell you, almost literally everything else is kind of another way to say God in some capacity.
Gerrit Oh, I see. So it's just like Father. What about plan?
Richard Yeah. So Jesus was number 1, Christ was number 2, God was number 3, Lord was number 4, 1 was number 5. I thought that was interesting. Church was number 6, Father was number 7, Savior was tied for 8 with joy, and then love. So just it was, I mean, and I went back and I actually did analysis of previous general conferences and it's pretty common. It's interesting when we go to these, when we go to general conference, it's like, oh, I wonder what they're going to say. You know what? I've got to guess, it's going to be about Jesus a lot.
Gerrit Yeah. It might have something to do with the Savior. It's possible.
Richard Yeah, just possibly. Anyway, so, Gerrit, we are now at 367 temples that have been announced or under construction or that are functioning.
Gerrit Okay.
Richard And, okay, guess what percentage of those have been announced by President Nelson, according to the Church News.
Gerrit What percentage? Oh my goodness.
Richard Yes. So, we have 367. What percentage? Now, President Hinckley was, I mean, he's, when you think of temples, he was the godfather of small temples.
Gerrit Boy, I would say 50 percent.
Richard 50.4 percent.
Gerrit You actually round down with 50.4 percent. And like the price is right, it's the closest you can get without going over.
Richard Without going over, yeah. 51, you would have been way out.
Gerrit No, 51, it was like I'm an apostate.
Richard How about that? 50 percent. It's crazy. That's why Branson's nuts or his friends are nuts to not take that over at 12 and a half.
Gerrit You got to take the over, yeah. I don't know who his bookie is, but I mean, I assume that he just got fired or beaten up in an alley somewhere.
Richard So the next one is themes, just kind of general themes, because sometimes my understanding, I've yet to speak in General Conference. Yet. My understanding though, is that they aren't necessarily assigned topics to speak on. So it's always interesting when multiple people give multiple talks that talk about the same thing. So running it through and doing the analysis on themes is a little different than just words. But were there any specific themes from General Conference that stood out? You're like, that was a theme that I think was pretty common, that made its way into multiple talks.
Gerrit Well, we already covered one of them. Joy was one of the themes. There were multiple talks where we were talking about the Gospel of Joy.
Richard Joy in Christ or some variation of that had 18 mentions or related phrases in General Conference. So that was number two, actually.
Gerrit Yeah. And Peacemakers was another, an entire talk on it. But then it was also referenced in multiple other talks.
Richard Peacemakers was number seven with 11 mentions and unity related concepts. Yeah. Several that were like that. So Peacemakers and Joy for sure.
Gerrit I don't know if this will make our list, but there certainly was a theme of persevering in faith despite questions that you might have. An entire talk on that as well as other talks that referenced that.
Richard Number six, Endure Trials with Hope, 12 Mentions of Endurance Trials, Hope through those different things. So yeah. How about that? Number six, yeah, those stood out to you. Number one is, again, I wonder what they're going to talk about this conference. I've got an idea.
Gerrit Is it the people of Jesus Christ?
Richard Yeah. Faith in Jesus Christ. 26 Mentions throughout the talk. That's literally almost every... There's usually 34 to 35 talks in a General Conference, 29 of them in this one about faith in Jesus Christ specifically. I mean, of course. That's kind of the whole point. Repentance and Forgiveness, number three, 16 Mentions, Keeping Your Covenants at number four with 14, the role of the Holy Ghost in Comfort and Guidance, number five, Peacemaker, like we said, number seven, Enduring Trials was number six, Charity and Love, number eight, Personal Revelation, number nine, and Gratitude and Thanksgiving, number ten. So those were some of the high-level themes that came out. And I think that with many, like almost any conference, you're going to have some. So when you looked at last year, by the way, our last conference in April, Temples was far more prominent.
Richard I think that was number one, or number two. Faith in Crisis, like always, it's always going to be number one. Coming in at number one, always. But anyway, so I thought that that was some fun recap of a wonderful general conference weekend.
Gerrit Yeah, I think that's awesome. I mean, you did a ton of work on this, much more work than I would do in prepping for the podcast at all.
Richard It's more work than I've done in four years on this podcast, not on an episode, collectively.
Gerrit I see. So you've done more work just in this one act alone.
Richard Well, so let me ask you, Gerrit, if you, so let's put milwaukee, Wisconsin, like it's some sort of a tournament, milwaukee, Wisconsin temple versus Jackson County temple, who would you say is favored in getting the temple prior to Sunday?
Gerrit Oh, I would have said Jackson. No, I would have said Wisconsin, but it would have been close. Like, I'm surprised.
Richard So it's milwaukee, Wisconsin, plus 110.
Gerrit Well, especially because milwaukee is relatively close. Now, of course, people who live in Wisconsin are like, what are you talking about? But it's relatively close to the temple in Chicago. I mean, in terms of things. And so you could, you know, I couldn't be happier for the people there. Look, I joke around a lot about my mission and yeah, and as this elder wrote, it was very, very difficult. The very fact that it was that difficult gave me just a reverential feeling towards the members who were there, who their faith was not a social faith. Their faith wasn't because it was easy. Their faith wasn't because, oh yeah, everyone else is doing it. And I want to make sure that the people at work see that I'm still a member, and oh, what if Bill at work finds out that I'm no longer active? And those kinds of things that you get in Utah. Now, the people who were there desperately believed in the gospel the same way that I imagine the earliest Latter-day Saints who were converts in Wisconsin did.
Gerrit Because you were going to be open to public ridicule. You had to give up all of, look, Wisconsin is the Octoberfest capital, essentially, of the nation. You had to completely give up the most social thing there is in Wisconsin, and that is drinking. Which meant that you weren't just considered like trying to be healthy if you didn't drink at a company party. You were a weirdo. And there was no way to explain why you didn't drink. There was no way to explain that. And on top of that, there was all kinds of super aggressive antagonists from the Protestant churches that were there. Anti-Mormonism was everywhere before the internet was a big thing in Wisconsin. And so there was all kinds of opposition, and it meant that the members there, they were fully committed.
Gerrit And so hallelujah for the fact that these people who have sacrificed so much to stay in the church, in an area like that, now have a temple of their own or will. And that, I mean, it brought a tear to my eye, honestly, when the announcement was made. It was, it was incredible.
Richard That's awesome. Well, so now, Gerrit, kind of going to, usually we have a question and we answer it. Well, we've kind of got a unique opportunity here. There's a, there's a movie that is coming out this week, six days in August. And, and so we wanted to kind of talk a little bit about what that movie is about and, and kind of what is going on at that particular time. And I believe you know the, either the producer or the director or the-
Gerrit Yeah, both in fact.
Richard Oh, how about that?
Gerrit Well, so, look, I am not being compensated in any way for talking about this. So if someone's listening right now and they're like, oh, I see, you finally went the corporate route. First of all, no one would ever give us any money. You don't have to worry about that. Literally, no one supports us at all. So you don't have to worry about, oh, is Gerrit going corporate? Because the answer is, of course, he's not. You have to find someone willing in order for that to happen.
Richard Of course, of course not. So, Gerrit, this is, now we haven't seen the movie yet. We're going to go and see the movie.
Gerrit We're going to go see the premiere on Wednesday.
Richard Go to a premiere. Oh my gosh. What are you wearing?
Gerrit A lot of red carpet. I'm going to be wearing last year's fashion as any good historian would.
Richard Joseph A. Banks' suit from 1997.
Gerrit You saw in the picture. Actually, I was wearing it. That's what I was wearing.
Richard Yeah, 100 percent.
Gerrit I still hold that suit.
Richard So this non, in any way compensated segment is brought to you by Jersey Mike's. Jersey Mike's, if you're hungry, it's pretty good.
Gerrit So a couple of years ago, people might have remembered that there was a film that came out about the Three Witnesses, and dramatization of not just the three, but also the Eight Witnesses of the place. This is the same movie group, the same producers are doing this. In fact, if you go to their website, the website is witnessesfilm.com. And, you know, kind of jumping from one end of church history, the witnesses of the gold plates, to the other end of church history. Talk about timeliness in the need for this movie. This movie is a dramatization of the succession crisis that takes place after Joseph Smith is murdered. The Six Days in August is a reference to the arguments that were being held by the various claimants to, you know, to be the head of the church after Joseph Smith is murdered.
Gerrit Now, we've talked a little bit about that on this podcast. In fact, we talk a little bit about it, especially when we do the Council of 50 topics, we talk about that. But this is, I think, going to be a very important film. Now, look, it's a film, so of course, there's going to have to be some license taken with the way people interact with one another, the clothing they wear and the dialogue that's there. But I know that these movie producers, they've deliberately tried to be as close as they can with the documents that they have. And I know that because they've talked to me about the film before they ever started writing it or filming it. And so we wanted to give a shout out to it. Because look, there's a lot of garbage out there. There's an awful lot of antagonism that's directed at the church. There's a lot of garbage that is out there in the world.
Gerrit And it's important that we support things that are trying to build faith and testimony. The reason why I say it's very timely is today, some of the areas in which people are struggling with their faith most, and in fact, one of the areas in which there is a multiple pronged assault on faith by multiple apostate groups, is the argument that Joseph Smith was certainly a prophet, okay, Book of Mormon, true, Doctrine and Covenants, everything, great. But that Brigham Young was a false prophet. That Brigham Young wasn't to follow Joseph with the keys, but in fact, Brigham Young is the author of the practice of plural marriage, that he invented that, that it wasn't from Joseph Smith, that he usurped the power that's there. And the reason why these apostate groups make this argument is because they themselves are arguing, yes, the church line of authority stopped when Joseph died, but don't worry, I'm actually the new prophet and follow me.
Gerrit I mean, you have people like Denver Snuffer who's recording and publishing his own revelations co-mingled with the teachings of Joseph Smith. So when I say it's timely, it's a timely thing to remember how it is that the Quorum of the Twelve first was given the keys of the kingdom by Joseph, but also how it is that the church voted and selected them. Now, I don't know that everything is going to be in the movie. We'll talk about it again after we see it. But I think I would share, you know, on this topic, some personal reflections from the Apostle Wilford Woodruff, who later, of course, becomes the prophet of the church. Because his journal outlines some of the discussions that are going on in a way that provides some real-time feedback.
Gerrit When he finds out that Joseph was murdered, it's devastating for Wilford Woodruff. It's devastating for all the apostles, and they all begin to make their way back. So I'm going to start August 5th of 1844 in Wilford Woodruff's journal. This is pretty funny, as he starts this entry with, August 5th, this is the day of the election in this state. There will probably be some fighting, and perhaps some bloodshed, as men are getting wicked and about-ripe for judgment. There was some fighting in the bar room below last evening, but nothing very serious. So for all those of you who think that there's only violence occasioning elections or threats of violence today, well, actually August 5th of 1844, Wilford Woodward was like, yep, there's going to be some people stabbing each other because it's the election day. Anyway, he goes on to say, Elder Kimball had a dream last evening and thought he was preaching to a large congregation, said that the Prophet Joseph Smith had laid the foundation for a great work, and it was now for us to build upon it.
Gerrit He thought Brother Joseph was present and appeared natural. Then he talks about how they get on a steamer and leave Galena for Nauvoo and he gets there the next day. He talks about how they stopped at various different places along the way and when they get to Nauvoo, they embrace their families and friends. The Upper Stone House, we were hailed with joy by all the citizens we met. I accompanied the Quorum of the Twelve to their families, after which I was conveyed to my own and truly felt to rejoice to once more embrace my wife and children. I spent the night at home with my family and thus it is with me. I have not spent but one summer, either at home or with the church, for the last 10 years. Think about that for a minute. Wow. Wilfred Woodruff has been gone every summer for 10 years preaching the gospel.
Gerrit He goes on to say that there seemed to be a deep gloom that rested over the city of Nauvoo which we had never experienced before. Remember, this is just the days after, literally over a month after Joseph was brutally murdered and Hyrum. August 7th. I went forth this morning through the city of Nauvoo and saw many friends and met with the quorum of the 12 elder Taylors. We were truly glad to see each other. Brother Taylor was getting well of his wounds that he received in the jail in company with Joseph and Hyrum Smith when they were murdered. We were glad to see Dr. Richards who escaped unhurt. We were received with gladness by the saints throughout the city. They felt like sheep without a shepherd, as being without a father, as their head had been taken away. We spent the four part of the day in Brother Taylor's, and in the afternoon we met in council in the 70s hall with the 12th, the High Council, and with the High Priest.
Gerrit And we heard Sidney Rigdon tell his story and message, which he had to us and the church. And a long story it was. How does Wilford Woodruff feel about it? It seems to be a little bit obvious as he writes in his journal. And a long story it was. It was a kind of second class vision. Boy, that is probably the best insult to the cross state revelation I think I've ever heard. It was a kind of second class vision. He said that he was appointed to come and offer himself to lead the church. And many things was said. He was followed by Brother Brigham Young. And he showed that there could not be anyone before the 12. A conference was appointed for the whole church to come together on Tuesday next at 10 o'clock. So originally, this conference is scheduled to be essentially six days later, because this is a Wednesday that they're having this meeting.
Gerrit But the next day, August 8th, there was a meeting appointed at the Grove for the church to come together in prayer. So first the plan is just to make this a prayer meeting. But in consequence of some excitement among the people and a disposition by some spirits to try to divide the church, it was thought best to attend the business of the church in the afternoon. That was to be attended to on Tuesday. The 12 spent their time in the four part of the day at the office, and in the afternoon, met at the Grove. The following is the business of the day. So they start off saying, we're going to have a prayer meeting, and then essentially, it's like we can't wait for this. People are trying to tear the church apart. All of the authorities of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, in and about Nauvoo, met in a special conference in the Grove. This is August 8th of 1844, at about 3 o'clock. The Quorum of the Twelve, Councilors Sidney Rigdon and Amos Lyman, the High Council and others occupied the stand.
Gerrit The High Priest Quorum and the Quorum of the Seventies, and the Elders and Bishops, Priests, Teachers and Deacons appeared in their several quorums and took their seats, and also a vast Congregation of Saints. When all was seated that could get seats, so apparently there's a lot of standing room going on here, President Young arose and said, Attention, all this congregation makes me think of the days of King Benjamin. When the people was so great that they could not make them here, but we want your attention. WW. Phelps was called upon to address the throne of grace, so he prayed, which he did do most fervently. President Brigham Young again arose and said, Let none complain because of the situation of the Congregation. We have all done the best we could. So please don't be grousing about the fact that you have bad seats for this Super Bowl here.
Gerrit For the first time in my life, for the first time in your lives, for the first time in the kingdom of God, do I step forth to act in my capacity in connection with the Quorum of the Twelve as apostles of Jesus Christ under the people and to bear the keys of the kingdom in all the world. And for the first time, are you called to walk by faith and not by sight? For always before you had a prophet as the mouth of the Lord to speak to you. But he has sealed his testimony with his blood. I now want to ask each of you to tell me. If you want to choose a guardian, a prophet, evangelist, or something else as your hedge to lead you, all that are in favor of it, make manifest by raising the right hand. No hands were raised. All that wants to draw a party away from the church after them, let them do it if they can, but they will not prosper.
Gerrit I now wish to speak of the organization of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Sidney Rigdon and Amos Aliman were counselors to Joseph. I ask, where is Joseph? He has gone beyond the veil, and for them to act in their office as his counselors, they must go beyond the veil where he is. There has been much said about President Rigdon being president of the church and leading the people, being the head, etc. If the people want President Rigdon to lead them, they may have him. But I say unto you that the Quorum of the Twelve have the keys of the kingdom of God in all the world. They stand next to Joseph and are the presidency of the church and hold the keys and would have to ordain any man under that appointment that should be chosen, if one was to be chosen. You cannot appoint any man at our head.
Gerrit We would have to ordain him. You cannot appoint a man at our head, but if you want any other man to lead you, take him and we will go our way and build up the kingdom in all the world. Perhaps some think that President Rigdon would not be honored, but if he does right, he will not act against our council, nor will he act against his, but act together. Nor will we act against his, but we'll act together. But I repeat again, no man can stand at our head. The Prophet Joseph has laid the foundation for a great work, and we will build upon it. Do you want a patriarch for the whole church? It would have been the right of Samuel Smith if he had lived, but he is dead, and William Smith has left, and John Smith, it is their right. Do you want a trustee in trust? If so, look at the bishop. It is their place to attend to temporal matters.
Gerrit They never yet have acted in their station. Elder Sidney Rigdon claims to be a spokesman for Joseph. Very well, he is. But can he now act in that office if he wants now to be a spokesman for the prophet? He must go to the other side of the veil, for the prophet is there. But Elder Rigdon is here. Why will Elder Rigdon be a fool? Well, those who hold the keys of the kingdom of God build it up in all the world. If there is a spokesman, if he is a king and a priest, let him go and build up the kingdom. That is his right. And it's the right of many here. But who is the head? The twelve. If one thousand rise up and say that they have the prophet Joseph's shoes, I know that they are imposters. If you know how the church is organized, I wish to ask a question. Now, if you want Rigdon, Lyman, or Law to lead you or anybody else, you may have them.
Gerrit So here he's making a reference to the members of the First Presidency. Joseph's First Presidency was Sidney Rigdon, William Law, the same person who created the Nauvoo Expositor disaster, and Amos Lyman. To lead you or anybody else, you may have them, but I tell you in the name of the Lord, that no man can put another between the Twelve and the Prophet Joseph. Why? Because Joseph was their leader, and he is committed into their hands the keys of the kingdom for all the world. Don't put a thread between the priesthood of God. I will ask you who has stood next to Joseph and Hyrum. I have, and I will stand next to him. We have a head, and that head is the Twelve, and we can now begin to see the necessity of the apostleship. I will now close and give way to my brethren. So this is how Wilford Woodruff recorded the address.
Gerrit Of course, there are other versions of this, and there's more included and less included. Well, the next, so all of this is stemming from the fact that Sidney Rigdon is claiming that because he's a member of the First Presidency, that he is the next in authority to lead the Church, that the First Presidency stood next to the prophet in authority, and that he should then be the guardian of the Church. Because by virtue of the fact that he's a member of the First Presidency. That's why a very undervalued aspect of this meeting is the very next person who stood up to speak. It wasn't Sidney Rigdon. It was Amasa Lyman. Now, there were three members of the First Presidency. And well, one of them was already excommunicated. That was William Law.
Gerrit So there's only two members of the First Presidency left when Joseph was murdered. So Amasa Lyman stood up. Now, Lyman is very different than Sidney Rigdon. There's a key difference. We've talked about this before in a podcast that you wouldn't be able to find because they're not indexed. We don't have them by number, but were they, you still wouldn't be satisfied with the answer that we gave you. But when Orson Pratt was excommunicated in 1842, Amasa Lyman took his place in the Quorum of the Twelve. He was ordained an apostle. Well, Orson Pratt repents and comes back into the church by the end of that year. He's rebaptized him and his wife are rebaptized by Joseph Smith. Well, Orson Pratt wants his place back in the Quorum of the Twelve. But it's not the Quorum of the Thirteen, it's the Quorum of the Twelve. So what are they going to do?
Gerrit So Joseph Smith, even though Lyman is ordained an apostle, Joseph Smith makes Lyman a member of the First Presidency, and he becomes, as far as I'm aware, the first apostle who's a member of the First Presidency. Because before that, you had people like, you know, Jesse Gause. Well, he wasn't an apostle in the First Presidency. You have people like John C. Bennett. Thank goodness he was never an apostle. I pray that he never held any key, except for the key of lying and fornicating, which he was quite adept at. William Law, similarly. Now, that's a weird thing to us, because to us, we can't even conceive of someone being in the First Presidency unless they were an apostle. But in Joseph's time, he called counselors who weren't ordained apostles.
Gerrit John C. Bennett wasn't an apostle. He was a lot of things, and he lied about a lot of things. And he was a piece of garbage that couldn't possibly be reconciled in any other way. I know that I'm supposed to be a peacemaker, but I can't when it comes to John C. Bennett. He is a lying, lying piece of garbage.
Richard Well, it wasn't in the top one or two things, Gerrit. That was faith, faith in Jesus, and joy.
Gerrit Until they get Peacemaker in the top two. I don't have any, the only joy I have is knowing that John C. Bennett was excommunicated. Anyway, so William Waugh as well was not made a member of the Quorum of the Twelve. He was brought into the First Presidency. So Lyman becomes, he becomes this dual threat. He now has, he now has the keys of the apostleship, but he's also a member of the First Presidency. Well, Sidney Rigdon's entire claim to authority is he is a member of the First Presidency, and the First Presidency stood an authority next to Joseph. So therefore, he's the leader. The problem for Sidney Rigdon is that while William Law was excommunicated, and you didn't have to worry about what William Law thought, Lyman was not excommunicated.
Gerrit He was a member in full faith and fellowship. And so the next person who stands up to speak is Amos Lyman. He stands up and he says, this is again, according to Wilford Woodruff's Journal, I will say a few words. Now, Brigham Young has very clearly called out and said, Amos Lyman doesn't have the authority to leave the church. He's already said that. So Lyman could have been a little bit indignant. Instead, Lyman stands up and he says, I will say a few words. I am satisfied with the open, frank manner that Elder Young has addressed this assembly. I only take exception to my name being associated with William Law. Because Brigham Young listed all of the law in one sentence. So Lyman says, look, you can't reference me in the same sentence as William Law. It shows you how much they hate William Law. Brigham Young, Elder Young asked his pardon and Lyman granted it.
Gerrit So apparently, Brigham Young is like, I apologize for mentioning you in the same sentence as William Law. And Lyman goes on to say, I believe that there is no power or officer or means wanted to carry on the work, but what is in the 12? The right has been presented by Elder Young, and I will back him up. President Young stood next to the Prophet Joseph with the 12, and I have stood next to them, and I will stand next to them. We have a head here. What is that head? The Quorum of the Twelve. We now see the necessity of the Apostleship. I might rise up as well as any other man to ask for the head. He's pointing out, look, I'm a member of the First Presidency. But I could not do it without endangering my salvation. But I will stand unto the Twelve, the same as I did to Joseph, either on one side or the other, but not before them.
Gerrit It's a brief speech, but boy. Talk about knocking out the supports of Sidney Redden's argument. If your entire argument is a member of the First Presidency has the authority to lead the Church, and there's two members of the First Presidency, and one of them says, you don't have any authority at all, Sidney. Neither do I. Only the Quorum of the Twelve has authority. It shatters the logic of Rigdon's argument. Because the way the First Presidency was designed, there wasn't first counselor and second counselor in the First Presidency. And so, if the argument is the First Presidency should take over after, Lyman has the same authority, and he's saying, everyone knows the Quorum of the Twelve is the one that has authority. Even, yeah, I have just as much a right to say I should be the leader of the Church as you do, Sidney.
Gerrit But if I did, I would be throwing away my salvation. So I think that's a powerful thing. We're not going to go into it anymore. We've gone on long enough. But I hope that you will support this. You know, look up where it is, these local movies. Go support people that are trying to defend our truth claims. We spend a lot of money and a lot of time supporting all kinds of garbage. Probably half of us are watching the Secret Lives of Mormon Housewives for crying out loud. But we should support someone who's trying, people who are trying to defend the faith in every realm and media that they're at. I am sure that my podcast is not everybody's cup of tea. I know because I have lots of people let me know that it's not their cup of tea.
Gerrit So I have no false allusions about that. I realize that the podcast that other people do are not everybody's cup of tea. That there's no accounting for taste. Some people love something that's rigorous and right to the point, and they don't want to talk about gambling over Sour Patch Kids in temples for the first 10 minutes. Other people want something to be more lighthearted, and then come with a serious edge at the end. Other people want it to be nothing but frivolous and lighthearted the entire time. So I realize that those kinds of movies, they may not be to everyone's taste. But whether they're to your taste or not, whether this is something you would normally do or not, I hope you will support the efforts of righteous, faithful filmmakers who are trying to defend the faith through the medium of film.
Gerrit Whether every single statement or fact in it is 100% accurate or not, the important thing is that the point of the film, Six Days in August, so go look it up. We're going to post a couple of links to them as well on here, so you can watch some of the things. Richard will do that, or at least our crack research staff will do that.
Richard We'll say we're going to do it. We have no intention of doing it.
Gerrit Yeah, exactly. But I do hope that you try to support the efforts of righteous men and women who are trying to present our faith in a way that is desperately needed. Because Brigham Young is a prophet of God, and to be a member of the church, you need to believe that Brigham Young is a prophet of God. The endowment that you see as so precious, the ceiling that you have to your spouse or your children, all of that we have because of Brigham Young. Because Sidney Rigdon did go off and start his own church, and guess what he didn't include in it? Ceilings, endowments, work for the dead. William Smith went off and founded multiple different churches, and there wasn't any in those. The reorganized church that will organize itself 16 years later doesn't include any of those temple ordinances.
Gerrit The Strangites, who will break off claiming that they have a letter that says some elder in Wisconsin has the ability to lead the church, they won't include all of those temple ceremonies. The things that you care about most in the church, the things that you heard all conference, about how important families are, about how important ceilings are, about how important your endowments and the very temples that have been announced, those things we have, because Brigham Young refused to throw them aside when all the rest of the world wanted them to. So yeah, it's pretty tough to deal with the fact that Brigham Young continued to teach and practice plural marriage and make us all the butt of every joke, oh, how many wives do you have? How many wives do you have?
Gerrit But the very fact that you believe in ceilings at all is because Brigham Young refused to cave to the Protestant culture around him, because to Brigham Young, to carry out Joseph's wishes is sweeter than honey or the honeycomb. The one thing that Lyman said was very true, that Wilfred said that was very true is that Brigham Young stood next to Joseph and he desperately tried to do everything that Joseph would have done. So it's easy on a TikTok and on an X posting to throw Brigham Young and other church leaders under the bus to try to prove some political or social point today. But in doing so, you throw away the very thing that you claim you care about in the first place.
Gerrit Because Brigham Young was a prophet of God. He was a flawed man, just like Joseph was a flawed man. But even though he was a flawed man, he was the prophet of God who got the keys of the kingdom from Joseph Smith. All of the other apostles who were present for the rolling off of those keys acknowledged that Brigham Young was the president of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. And when the crowd votes, they vote for the Quorum of the Twelve to be their leaders. There's nothing illegitimate about Brigham Young leading the church at all. By any measure that you decide to take, if this was just a corporation and it wasn't really founded by God and everyone just was a shareholder at a meeting and you took a vote, even by those standards, Brigham Young was the rightful leader of the church because that's what the church voted.
Gerrit But it's more than just tally marks on a sheet. When the Lord called Joseph to restore this church, before the church was organized, before there was a kingdom of God established on earth, first he sent Peter, James, and John to ordain Joseph Smith to be an apostle. Because it takes an apostle to hold the keys of the kingdom to found and run the church. Those keys were restored over the course of time, and they did not die with Joseph. He didn't pass them on to Sidney Rigdon. He certainly didn't give them to James Strang. They weren't somehow given to the other apostate groups that start up. They certainly aren't with William McClellan, and they certainly aren't with David Whitmer and the churches he found.
Gerrit So his keys were given by the prophet of Joseph shortly before his death to the Quorum of the Twelve. And Brigham Young knew it. That's why he said, look, and he says it multiple times, and you can follow Sidney Rigdon if you want. Don't stay here if you don't want to. Go with him. Go with Sidney Rigdon. If you think he's the leader, go with him. But it's going to be a failure because this is the kingdom of God on earth. And what do you see from all of these groups that broke off? It is demonstrated just by the growth of the church alone, which is the stone cut out of the mountain without hands, and which were man's inventions, trying to hold on to some of the teachings of Joseph, but denying the very ordinances that Joseph died for.
Gerrit Look, there's a lot of really good people that believe the Book of Mormon is true, but don't believe our church is true. Tens of thousands of them. But we don't believe in exaltation because we read the Book of Mormon. We believe in exaltation because of the ordinances of the temple that Joseph Smith restored. So I hope that you can watch this movie, read some of the revelations, teachings and writings of Brigham Young, and grow your faith that those keys were passed on because those keys are essential to your exaltation. So thank you so much for joining us.
Intro Thank you for listening to the Standard of Truth podcast hosted by historian Dr. Gerrit Dirkmaat. If you know anybody that could benefit from the material in this episode, please share it with them. And for more resources, visit standardoftruth.com. Until next time.

Quote board

Make a share card from any line

Yeah, we have a strong stance that you shouldn't be gambling at all, and gambling on the number of temples to be announced, it really is a level of degeneracy that would make the Israelites who built the Golden Calf Blush.

GerritBanter

You're betting pre-season WNBA who scores first.

GerritBanter

I said, it would be evidence that global climate change is certainly real because hell is certainly freezing over.

GerritBanter

You know what? I've got to guess, it's going to be about Jesus a lot.

RichardBanter

It's more work than I've done in four years on this podcast, not on an episode, collectively.

RichardBanter

The very fact that it was that difficult gave me just a reverential feeling towards the members who were there, who their faith was not a social faith.

GerritInsight

Well, it wasn't in the top one or two things, Gerrit. That was faith, faith in Jesus, and joy.

RichardBanter

It shatters the logic of Rigdon's argument.

GerritInsight

We'll say we're going to do it. We have no intention of doing it.

RichardBanter

But it's more than just tally marks on a sheet.

GerritInsight

We believe in exaltation because of the ordinances of the temple that Joseph Smith restored.

GerritInsight

More from this episode

Claim checkThings people say, and what the episode shows.

Claim check

What critics say, and what the episode found
Joseph Smith was a prophet, but Brigham Young usurped power and invented plural marriage.
As a member of the First Presidency, Sidney Rigdon was next in line to lead.
Take it to classReady to use in a lesson or a talk.

Take it to class

Ready to copy into a lesson or a text

In August 1844, the Saints walked by faith for the first time without Joseph. Brigham Young taught that the Twelve held the keys Joseph gave them, and the Church voted to follow them.

Amasa Lyman had as much claim to lead as Sidney Rigdon, and he chose to stand with the Twelve. That kind of humility settled a crisis.

The sealings, endowments and temples we treasure came to us because Brigham Young refused to set aside what Joseph taught.

Members in hard places, like Gerrit's Wisconsin, keep their faith without social support. That's worth honoring.

Banter binThe funniest moments in this episode.

Banter bin

The running jokes, for people who skip ahead
Oklahoma State, againGerrit introduces Richard as "now even sadder" after another loss (0:39, 0:53).
Gambling with a conscienceOver/unders on temples, preseason WNBA props, a bookie who must've been fired, all with full support for President Hinckley's talk (5:59, 6:23, 29:04).
Fun with AdulteryLast game was a hit; Philastus Hurlbut gets the credit (2:33, 2:44).
Wisconsin, where there are no membersThe four members there all get a temple; people try to get on the bus to get out (9:06, 11:07).
Doctor inflation"Dr. Dirkmaat and yet to be Dr. Professor laduke," and "Dr. Kurtmatt" (8:13, 11:51).
The crack research staffEpisode numbers are coming, someday, and Richard's conference transcripts are on Etsy (9:20, 24:46).
The hour-long chastity talkPlayed on cassette during P-day games of Risk; Gerrit wishes he had titled it after Philastus Hurlbut (20:35, 21:45).
Kai gets asked for his numberWhich never happened to Richard in high school (22:27, 23:01).
Brought to you by Jersey Mike'sNo one pays them, so this uncompensated segment has a sponsor; Gerrit wears a 1997 Jos. A. Bank suit to the premiere (37:46, 37:34).
The John C. Bennett buttonGerrit can't be a peacemaker about Bennett, and Richard notes peacemakers only ranked seventh (57:01, 57:22).
We'll post the linksRichard: "We have no intention of doing it" (1:04:15).
The Phebe Draper Palmer Brown MailbagSend Gerrit and Richard your question.

The Phebe Draper Palmer Brown Mailbag

Your question could be next week’s episode
Questions from Litners drive a lot of episodes. Send yours. If it makes the show, Richard reads it on air.
Go deeperWhere to read more.

Go deeper

Deep dives the episode points toward
Wilford Woodruff's journal for August 5 to 8, 1844 (42:23).
Amasa Lyman's unusual place as both an apostle and a counselor in the First Presidency (54:59).
The Strangites and their letter naming a leader in Wisconsin (1:05:25).
Six Days in August and Witnesses, from the same filmmakers (37:55).
The earlier episode on Gerrit's Wisconsin mission (9:20).
SOT Litner · S4E41.