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S4E52 · The Importance of the Temple (Interview with President Roggero)
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Standard of Truth · Season 4 · Episode 52 · 55:35

The Importance of the Temple (Interview with President Roggero)

President Roggero personally invited every one of the 98 Saints who went, telling each one that the Lord wanted them at His house because He had a message for them there.

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The question ·

What was it like for President Roggero and the Saints of Rio Gallegos to finally go to the temple, and what does he want listeners to know?

Richard

This holiday episode is a little different. First Gerrit interviews JT, a 14-year-old superfan whose mom made him start listening, over pizza in Spanish Fork. Then Richard reads President Roggero's letter announcing the temple trip to the Rio Gallegos district, and Richard and Gerrit interview the district president with help from their friend Carlos. President Roggero tells how a small act of faith became a week in the Buenos Aires temple, paid for by more than $42,000 from listeners, and how he thought of the donors' faces while he was there. He shares stories of a missionary reunion, a youth who almost stayed home for his birthday, and strangers at the temple who found hope again, and he reminds everyone that the Lord just needs one willing heart.

Who comes upPablo RoggeroRussell M. NelsonAlma the YoungerAbinadi
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Intro Welcome to the Standard of Truth Podcast. In this podcast, Dr. Gerrit Dirkmaat and Dr. Richard LeDuc explore the early history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the life and teachings of Prophet Joseph Smith. They examine the original historical sources and provide context for events of the past. They approach the history of the Church with faith, expertise, and humor.
Richard Hi, and welcome to another episode of the Standard of Truth Podcast. I'm Dr. Gerrit Dirkmaat's friend, Dr. Richard LeDuc. Happy Hanukkah and happy belated Christmas. We hope that you're having a wonderful holiday season with Kith and Kin. This week's episode is gonna be a little bit different. We had a couple of different interviews with a couple of folks, and we wanted to air them here. The first will be an interview with Gerrit and super friend of the show, JT. JT is a younger litner to the podcast, and Gerrit had an opportunity to meet up with JT and his folks for lunch, and they recorded a short little interview that we wanted to play here. Following the interview with JT, I'm going to read the official letter that President Roggero sent out to the Rio Gallegos district, announcing the temple trip, and then we are going to have an interview that Gerrit and I had with President Roggero, where he expresses his gratitude to the Litners of the podcast for their donations, and shares several powerful experiences that he had in the preparation for the temple trip, as well as that he experienced when we were all together in the Buenos Aires temple.
Richard So, we hope that you will enjoy these two interviews. Thank you for another wonderful year of the Standard of Truth Podcast. We're very excited for next year as we study the Doctrine and Covenants, and are excited for a bunch of changes that we will be announcing in the upcoming year as we go in depth on things that Gerrit actually knows something about. We've been making it up for the past three years, but this year, oh boy, get ready.
Other Well, I am here with one of the podcast superfans. Would you say, JT, that you're a superfan? I would say I am a superfan, yes. You'd say you're a superfan. How old are you, JT? 14 years old. 14. When did you start listening to the podcast? Say about a year and a half ago. About a year and a half ago. Was that because it was some kind of a punishment, your parents made it out, or was that like, if you don't get all A's, then you have to listen to the podcast? My mom basically pulled an Officer R and trapped me in the car and made me listen to it. So, there's a lot of people who love the Officer R style. The forced listening, it's how we get most of our listeners. That and missionaries. Yeah, those are the two. I'm actually here with JT's parents. You don't want to, they don't have a mic in front of them, but you want to introduce them. So, I'm here with my dad, Mike, and my mom, Nicky. And they've gone to the live event and I didn't, and I'm not happy about that still. So, they didn't invite you to the live event, or you had chores to do?
Other I had, so I crew for my school there, a theater school, and I had a play I had to crew that day. Okay, what play was it? Clearly not very memorable. You know what would have been more memorable? The live event. It would have been, I just could not say no because my teacher was a little insane. If it makes you feel any better, I didn't want to do the live event at all. So, you not being there was actually my dream, because I didn't want to be there. But Richard, I think we all know that ever since he's gotten closer and closer to the doctor, now he is doctor, he runs the show. He tells me, this is what we'll be doing, and I say, but I don't want to do that, and then sure enough, there I am, live event.
Gerrit Isn't that how it always is?
Other It's how it is with good friends. Good friends are always making you do things you don't want to do, and parents. They're both of them are doing that. So, what grade are you in?
Gerrit Ninth.
Other Ninth grade, okay. And we're here at a Mod Pizza in Spanish Fork recording. That's where you might hear it. It's a little loud in the background. I mean, it's, anyone who listens to the podcast is already gonna not be distracted at all. We haven't mentioned any sporting bets. No one listens to the podcast. No one listens, only JT. Apparently, not even your mom anymore listens, right? Because she got you to do it, and then she stopped because it was a punishment, right? Yeah. Yeah, pretty much. Pretty much, very nice. So you're in ninth grade, and where do you go to school? Early Light Academy. It's a charter school. Okay. Where at? Right on the corner between South Jordan and the Great. You don't have to give them the exact address. I don't need anyone trying to kidnap you from school, but- That would be fun. But so you're a freshman then? Yes. Yeah. Okay. So what do you want to do with your life? I have no idea. So you don't want to just become a podcaster? Not particularly. It's super lucrative. I'm sure it is. Yeah. I mean, the filthy lucre is everywhere with it.
Other But- I'm sure it is, but I would like to have good living. And boy, good living could be taken in many different ways at this point. There's a lot of problems with it. So what- your mom made you listen to it, but I have several teenagers, and mainly when I make them do things, it doesn't- they don't respond well. Like if I make them go to Disneyland, then they're okay with that. If I make them take $100 for themselves, they seem to be fine with that. But when I make them do other things that they don't want to do, they don't respond to us. What made you say, you know what, this is not as horrible as I thought it would be? So I'm a really weird teenager and I love history. And it was one of your less funny episodes and more insight and I mean, I'm a... When you say one of your less funny episodes, so that's all of the episodes.
Other I mean, this episode that we're going to be airing this on, people are going to be referring this to as one of the less funny episodes. You need a better marker. That's true. Let me put it this way, less attempts to be funny. Less attempts to be funny. And it was on history. Yes, which I have always liked. And so it just got me hooked and I started listening, started from the beginning and just loved it. Well, that's great. And so you're listening to the premium content too?
Richard Yes.
Other Yes. So you listen to the American history stuff?
Richard Yes.
Other It's better than the church history stuff? He has a look on his face like, I don't want to say that it's better, but also it's better.
Intro I'll admit, yes, it's better.
Other Okay. You're the only person who thinks that. No, we have several people who don't want to listen to the podcast at all, actually, who are forced to, they're arrested, they're put in the back of cars. So that's pretty similar. Yeah. So why would you tell people that they should listen if you hate the rest of the podcast? I have to think about this one. I would say, well, English is hard. Yeah, talking is hard. Yes, it is very hard. I would say that it's very fun and it's something that you can do to calm down if you're upset because you can just listen to their mistakes and feel better about yourself. Yeah, no, that's a great. Learning aspects is fun, but nothing's more fun than knowing that we do a bad product and that makes you feel better about yourself.
Other Yeah. Yeah, I think Richard, if he were here, he would say that was actually our business model. Is if we could put out a product that's so bad that people feel better about themselves, it's like throwing starfish back in the ocean. Yeah. Yeah. We are responsible for so much better mental health, and we like that. So you love theater, what other things do you like to do? I like to sing. Like to sing? And football. Okay. So you're a real triple threat there. You're going to both act and also play football. Do you ever find your acting and singing skills help on the football field? Like someone pushes you and you go flying out of bounds, and get a penalty thrown? Is that...
Gerrit Yes, actually. It does help.
Other It does help. Like, I assume that everyone who plays, you know, English football or soccer, that they've all taken acting classes. If you watch a game, you know, someone slide tackles within three yards of them, and doesn't make any contact, and they roll around on the ground as if they've died. Which is apparently what it's like for you to listen to the podcast. It's just as painful. So, you're probably the first fan that we've talked to who just really hates the content, but listens to it for a self-esteem reason. I feel like we could market that. We could market the self-esteem aspect of it.
Gerrit You could. You totally could.
Other What position do you play in football? Line, both offensive and defensive. Okay, like guard, tackle? Guard, center, little bit of center, and then I'm learning tackle. Okay. They always say that the center is the smartest guy in the offensive line. So you're going to have to kick it up a notch with the grades. Yeah. In order to. Yeah. Yeah. If you're going to be the Jason Kelsey of where you play, you're going to have to kick it up with the grades. Yeah. I will. So what are your other hobbies, interests? I like building stuff. Like from scratch? Yeah. Or like Legos? Like from scratch. Okay. What's something you've built? My room. Aside from your self-esteem from having listened to the podcast mistakes. My room. You built your room? Yeah. Like on your house? Yeah. You just subcontracted it out to yourself and just ran some cable and built a room.
Intro Yes.
Other Two by fours and everything. Is it a basement room then? So you finished a basement? No.
Gerrit We took our roof off.
Other We took our whole roof off and then we got the snow. Okay. Yeah, I built my room. It's a Merry Christmas that you have a roof over your head then. Yes. Yeah. Since you took the roof off, where did you live when the roof was off? My grandparents' basement, they have a mother-in-law apartment. Yeah. So we just lived there. Well, it's been fascinating getting to know you, and I assume that you've shared this podcast with all of your friends. Yes. Yeah. None of them have said that they would listen. Not a single one. Yeah. Of course, they wouldn't. Our demographic is, as Richard likes to say, is more people that are entering hospice. Hospice, not because they have a natural end of life scenario, but because they listen to the podcast and they hate it so much that they say, that's it, I can't go on anymore. It's a very odd hospice. But now, you can share this episode with your friends.
Other Hey, that was me, and there was like four people, including Gerrit's mom, and also Rachel's mom, that listen. Is there anything else you want to say? No, just please don't ever do this again. You can thank your parents. JT's parents surprised him with this, so we're catching him very much on the spot. They thought that they were going to a riveting meeting with a work supplier, and instead it was a riveting meeting with me. So thanks so much for listening to the podcast, JT.
Gerrit Dear brethren, in recent times, the First Presidency has emphasized the importance of making covenants in the temple more than at any time remembered. All of these things are clear evidence of when the Lord declared, Behold, I will hasten my work in its time. Doctrine and Covenants, section 88, verse 73. Every conference is an invitation to be prepared with a current recommendation and to attend the temple as our circumstances permit. By making and keeping covenants in the temple, we are promised that no wicked combination shall prevail over those who worship in the house of the Lord. Understanding the spiritual privileges that the temple makes possible is vital for us today. The word endowment means gift, and temple endowment is literally a gift from God by which he blesses his children, and it can only be received in the Holy Temple. Some of the gifts that members receive through the temple endowment are increased knowledge of the Lord's purposes and teachings, power to do all that Heavenly Father desires his children to do, divine direction in serving the Lord, their families and others, increased hope, comfort, and peace.
Gerrit In the last general conference, the Lord's Prophet declared, My dear brothers and sisters, this is my promise. Nothing will help you hold fast to the iron rod more than worshipping in the temple as regularly as your circumstances permit. Nothing will protect you more as you face the dark mists of the world. Nothing will strengthen your testimony of the Lord Jesus Christ and his atonement more, and nothing will help you understand God's magnificent plan more. Nothing will soothe your spirit more in times of sorrow. Nothing will open the heavens more. Nothing. Our Heavenly Father knows our needs before we ask him, and understands how far away the nearest temple is for us. However, nothing is impossible for God, and miracles follow those who believe without doubting anything, because God is a God of miracles. It is for this reason that we are pleased to announce, with great joy, that in the month of November of this year, 2024, our district will have a contingent to the temple between November 25th and 29th.
Gerrit This trip is possible thanks to selfless contribution of brothers and sisters of the church who consecrate their temporal goods to help those brothers and sisters who need the ordinances of the temple. On this occasion, and as a priority, emphasis will be placed on those families who have been prepared and who will need to be sealed for eternity, as well as those brothers and sisters who are ready to receive their own endowment. The possibility that more members, including some young people, may travel is not ruled out, but this will be communicated as details of the trip are finalized in the coming days. The branch presidents will immediately begin to coordinate interviews with these brothers and sisters. We encourage you to continue preparing yourself spiritually to receive all the blessings that the Lord promises to the faithful through service in his holy house. Sincerely, Rio Gallegos, District Presidency. Well, so, so, President, I wanted to introduce you to my friend, Dr.
Gerrit Dirkmaat. He teaches at the BYU. And it was his podcast where we did the promotion and where we raised over $42,000 to pay for everything.
Richard Well, President, I want to introduce my very good friend, Gerrit Dirkmaat. He is the one who has the podcast where he talked about this trip. And the listeners of this podcast were the ones who, through their donations, were able to get the funds, more than $40,000, to be able to do this trip.
Gerrit When I told him many stories yesterday, when we got home, and I think that he might believe that you didn't exist, that you were one of the three Nephites.
Richard I told him some of the stories, not of the experiences we had this week, and I think he thought that you were one of the three nefitas, if he didn't know you in person. So, here is Dirkmaat's brother.
Other Nice to meet you, Gerrit. Good to meet you, President. My Spanish is worse than Richard's, and really, really bad. Not better with Richard? It's way worse than Richard.
Richard He says that his Spanish is worse than Richard's.
Other Ah, it's perfect. Good to meet you, president. That's good. Well... Gerrit, he's the voice to the podcast.
Gerrit Yes. The voice and the brains and the whole thing.
Other I heard the podcast about Josemi the other day.
Richard Okay, he said he listened to the podcast the other day of Joseph Smith, so he recognizes the voice.
Other Oh, yeah. Well, sorry, I don't have it in Spanish. It's...
Richard You can work on that.
Richard Yeah, so Carlos, by the way, Gerrit, this is my good friend Carlos Cruz.
Richard Nice to meet you.
Gerrit So President, thank you so much for your time. I just wanted to... We wanted to just have a discussion with you about your thoughts and feelings and expressions and experiences as it related to the last week. For my family, it was life-changing, and we were so blessed to have the opportunity to get to know you and your family. But we wanted to kind of just get your impressions, and then if it's okay, we wanted to share those with all of the listeners to the podcast so that they could feel like they were part of it, because they were, even though they weren't there.
Richard Litners.
Gerrit You don't know how funny that is.
Richard Hi, Litners.
Other My name is Pablo Roggero from Argentina.
Richard Well, I'm happy to share my thoughts and my impressions. First, I'm happy to meet you, Gerrit, and of course, Richard. I have, like I said, many impressions, many thoughts. What comes to mind first are that there is the revelation that flowed to make this possible, and the fact that miracles occur, that miracles happen, again, to make this possible over the past seven months. So this started with really just a tiny bit of faith, just a desire for additional faith. When I was called to be the district president here in this district, Rio Gallegos, in last November, it was clear to me that we needed to be, not we, but us as a district, the members in the district needed to be at the temple. So we needed to increase our hope and our desire to be at the temple.
Other Entonces, bueno, dije, tú quieres que vayamos al templo, que lleve a tus hijos al templo. I need your help. I need your help for this.
Richard So I got together with my counselors, my presidency, and we talked about faith. And we talked about how we needed to demonstrate faith to have miracles. And in November, 2022, or I'm sorry, not November, but President Nelson in 2021, one of his addresses in general conference, he said that through the faith of the saints, that there will be miracles brought in the church. I'm going to get this quote wrong. But basically that there will be miracles that unlike any we've seen before. And I believe that this is exactly one of those miracles, that because of the faith of the saints, that this miracle occurred.
Richard Over this past few days, while I was at the temple, I did have your listeners in mind, because I'm aware of how this happened. So, I did have them in mind. I could imagine or I could kind of see their faces in my mind. I could imagine them making a very small donation even. Yeah, as if it were a widow's might. And even thought that some might have even considered that their small donation wasn't making a difference or wasn't enough.
Other But I wondered, how much is enough then?
Richard Well, then I thought, how much is enough?
Other I think we will be judged not only for our works, but also for the intentions of our hearts.
Richard And of course, we know that we are not necessarily judged by our actions only, but also by what our intentions are, what our good intentions.
Other Y pude sentir las buenas intenciones de cada persona cuando estuve en el templo. He sentido el abrazo de estas personas en el templo. He sentido el amor de estas personas hacia nosotros en el templo.
Richard And I could sincerely feel the intentions of these good people and while I was at the temple, I could feel hugs, as it were, from these people while I was at the temple. Kirokasi, you know, and I wouldn't have been able to do any of that without the help of people like Richard, like Karen, a bad translator even. But I heard Carlos in there. I heard Carlos. Yeah. But none of this would have been possible without the help of everyone. It wasn't just a single person's effort. You know, I could sense that there was anxiety, worry on your side, because you're not familiar with the culture, you're not familiar with the surroundings, the economy, like any of it.
Richard And so I could definitely sense the worry as we were planning and leading up to this event.
Richard Well, so if I could speak to that, I was terrified. So apparently, I would not be good at playing poker. My poker face is bad. There were two things that were of worry to me. The one is that we would be able, because there was a tremendous amount of logistical coordination to make it work. And so I wanted to so desperately that people would be able to get to the temple, that they'd be able to have the experience that President Nelson had promised them the last two general conferences. That was number one. The number two is when you accept donations from people, it's terrifying. You want to make sure that you are a good steward of that money because they so faithfully donated. And to your point, the vast majority of the donations were relatively small in number and in value, but large in number because I view many of the donations as being the widow's mites that were donated.
Richard And I was very concerned to make sure that we were good stewards of that money.
Other May I ask, President, how did you announce the temple trip to your members? Because you had already been praying about it. How did you, did you, did, did anyone see that it was, it was so soon after you guys put your faith in God that, that you suddenly had this announcement to them to, to a way for them to go to the temple.
Gerrit And to that point, Carlos, we, we heard from people, because originally we, we only had $10,000 committed. And so president had to make, he had to rank people. And we heard from some people that they didn't make the first cut. And so what, what, what was that like as then the money came in and everybody was able to go?
Richard So the announcement was made on June 30th, 2024. And he said that he's got a letter basically that he read to the district. He went for, he went to each sacrament meeting that Sunday and read a letter. And he's going to share that with us. But he said, during, during this whole experience, I really felt guided. I was receiving revelation, you know, other since my mission, I feel this is the closest I've ever been to the Spirit. Did you have a comment, Richard?
Gerrit I was talking to Gerrit yesterday, and that's exactly what I told Gerrit.
Richard Yeah, but President, that's exactly what Richard also said. He said to Gerrit, what you said about the mission, that in these moments, it has not been felt by the Spirit more since the mission. But to finish the comment, this is the closest I've ever felt to the Spirit, and perhaps the Spirit was always there even before this, but we always have distractions that make us maybe not listen to the Spirit or make us unaware of it. But the night before this announcement was made, even at my presidency, one of the questions we pondered was, how are we going to make this announcement? And so I of course prayed with very much intent to know how to do that, and this letter is the result of that.
Richard In that moment, I remember that call because Becky was on mute and she didn't say anything, the whole call, and then she took herself off of mute, and then she said, President, we're gonna get you to the temple. And that's all she said. And when I heard her say those words, first of all, there was a quiet moment right after that. And I don't know if everybody was just surprised by the commitment she had just made, or, but. Hugely surprised. Well, Richard was extremely surprised by the commitment. But he just said that when she said those words, with such certainty, he believed what she said, not because of anything more than it was the faith behind the words that she said.
Richard And so I knew that it was going to happen somehow. I think that the donations that were made, I consider that also to be made by the hands of the Lord. You know, the listeners that made these donations, I truly consider them to be as part of an extension of the hands of the Lord. These experiences that the members had were truly life-changing. They were able to go to the temple and make eternal covenants. And in some cases, these were even life-saving. Some, many, not many, but some members were kind of stuck and even into depression. And this experience at the temple really helped them.
Richard Again, a life-saving experience. So thank you. And I would, just like I said to Becky and to you all, that last night we were there, that if there was, to these people who made donations, if I knew the celestial word for gratitude, that is exactly how I feel to you. I'm very, very grateful. There's also even a few, a handful of youth who are, they're committed to serving a mission whereas they weren't before. And, but really, I think that one of the takeaways as well is just the love that we can have for one another, especially with the group that came from the US that virtual strangers up to that moment we met. And he said, the hugs that we exchanged when we first met are forever in my mind.
Richard Richard, I've actually got it recorded, and I'll share that with you sometime. But that initial hug that we shared is, you know, we were strangers, and here we were shedding tears with one another. So I think that it's amazing that we can have love for people that we had never even met. And yet, feel such great closeness and love for one another.
Gerrit Yeah. We felt the exact same way. We, as we were in the airport on our way home, we talked about how could we just do this for the rest of our lives and just do this, only this.
Richard So, I have a question for you too as well. And the question is, tell me about, or yeah, I guess it's more of a question. Tell me about your experience as you were preparing, even reaching out to me as a leader of a church group. What, I'm curious to know how your experience from your point of view was in dealing with the members, including myself here in this part of the world.
Gerrit So, if we could just pause. I would love, would she mind sharing the experience she had? I think it was, was it Tuesday? Or was it?
Richard Oh, yeah.
Gerrit That was such a sweet moment. We all didn't know what was going on. We just knew that everybody was crying. We wanted to understand what was when you ran into the gentleman at the hotel.
Richard Well, when this kind of got going, we were sharing this temple trip in our social media, letting people know that we're going to be going to the temple. And so I imagine that's how he saw or heard about this. But I never heard from him. He never said, messaged me or anything, never reached out to me that he might make a connection while I'm in Buenos Aires. But nevertheless, maybe he got busy or whatever. I knew he was in this area, but we just, I never heard, so I didn't expect to see him. But that day when we were at the temple, and I walked into the, after we finished that morning, work for that morning and walked into the hostel, I saw him and I immediately recognized him. I knew exactly who he was.
Richard And so here, you know, 20 years ago when I was 18 and he was a missionary. And now I'm 44, so that's actually a little more than 20 years ago. But it was, I immediately recognized him, and I didn't have time to plan a reaction or anything. I just, my immediate reaction was just to shed tears. And so that was my emotion to just a very, very happy, happy, happy moment of reuniting with my missionary, you know. This was my missionary.
Gerrit It reminded me, or it made me think of what the reunion between Alma the Younger and the Sons of Mosiah were after their missions when they come together, that they were both still brothers in the Lord. And that, my guess is that it made him more happy than it made her to see, or for him to see her.
Richard So I shared with him, with my missionary, that I, of course, I have, I'm married in the temple, and I have children that are sealed to me. I have a son who is on a mission right now, is about to be, come home, actually. And he himself is teaching others, just like you did many years ago, teaching others about this wonderful gospel and spreading this gospel of hope and love to others in Italy. And so, and I just shared with him that he had everything to do with the blessings that I have in my life.
Gerrit That's, yeah, that's, that's incredible. I, I've already taken way too much of their, of their time, but I didn't want to say one other thing that we are very excited to see. President Roggero talked about a dream that he had with all of the youth at the temple. And, and I think, actually, could you just tell him, I think that I took more than five minutes. Could you just say that?
Richard I think it took more than five minutes, right?
Gerrit I think it took six.
Richard Maybe six, maybe six.
Gerrit Sorry. But so, when he had that dream, it was impossible. It was impossible. It could have only happened because that's what the Lord wanted to happen. It's the only way. The youth seem to just, many of them that we had the opportunity to meet just seemed to catch on fire. And many of them were so new to the church, so many recent converts. And we are so excited to see the impact that the temple will have on their lives as they share the gospel with their friends and with their family. And we're very excited to follow them and their lives. For only getting to spend a couple of days with them, we grew to love them very, very much.
Richard So Fabrizio Titi, I don't know if you remember who he is.
Gerrit Oh, he's a baptizing machine.
Richard Yeah. Get back, get back. He says, he's a baptizing machine. But, well, he actually almost didn't make the trip to the temple. So he was on a list, he was going to go. And then I got a call from his mom to say, well, he's not going to make the trip to the temple. And I asked her, why not? What happened? And she said, well, he's got a birthday. He's got a birthday that week. But one of the things about him is that he was not planning on going on a mission. But he is now.
Other All right.
Gerrit So that's surprising that he wasn't, cause he came across, like he seemed to catch on fire more than anybody.
Richard From day one, from the first moment, I feel like.
Gerrit Like immediately, right? Like he seemed like, that's awesome.
Richard So the conversation went like this. When she told me that he wasn't going to go to the temple because it was his birthday and, and his sisters had organized or were organizing a surprise birthday party that he didn't know about. So when she called me to tell me that he wasn't going to be there, just a side note that this sister she has other other kids and they have all left the church. None of them are active. He's the last one that is still at the time, he's some on the fence, he's somewhat doesn't really know what's going to happen. And she got divorced some years ago and so more or less kind of a broken family kind of in some terms. But so here I have her on the phone and I explained to her, well, I told her, I said, I don't care about your birthday party, I don't care about the money that you've committed to this birthday party, I don't care about anything except your son.
Richard He needs to be on a mission. And if you're going to be teaching him that these other things are important or more important than the gospel, he's going to end up like the rest of your kids. I care about him and I want what's good for him. And this is what he needs to do. He needs to be at the temple with us on this trip. And so, again, these other things don't matter. This is what matters. He needs to go to the temple. And so I made it very clear to her that he needs to come. Afterwards, I felt perhaps I was a little too direct with, a little too strong. Perhaps I was a little bit too direct, too strong. But in retrospect, I felt that this really was the last opportunity we had to reach him.
Richard And he needed to be in the house of the Lord so that the Lord could talk to him and give him that message that he needed to hear that. That was the only pace he might hear it. So I felt like I needed to let her know that, that this was our opportunity for him, for her son.
Gerrit Well, so in the family dynamic between me and my wife is I'm generally a little bit softer. I'm a little bit, you know, trying to make sure that everybody feels good and comfortable. And then my wife is a straight shooter where she tells you exactly what she thinks and what you need to do. And we need that dynamic. Sometimes we need somebody to tell us exactly how it is so that they can, because sometimes it's the only way they'll hear.
Richard It's pueroso. So I took it upon myself to invite each and every one of the 98 people that came to the temple. I myself. And the reason is because I wanted to make sure that the invitation was clear. And so my invitation to each of them was something like this. He said, Carlos, the Lord would like to have you at his house. At his house. And he wants to have you there because he wants you to receive a message. He wants you to receive a message from him at his house. Will you accept his invitation? And that was the invitation that he gave to each of them. That's good.
Gerrit I'm going to steal that and I'm going to do that myself. That's powerful. That's beautiful.
Richard And so when they would accept the invitation, I of course just followed up by letting them know, well, the Lord looks forward to seeing you at his house. And he looks forward to having a conversation with you there. So I'll share also that personally, I felt like this was kind of like an exam that I was taking and I felt like I passed. But only in the sense that there were times when there were leaders in the district that I was counting on that didn't meet, they didn't measure up, but they didn't follow through with some of the expectations I had of them, including some in my presidency. But I think that something that we all witnessed, not just me, but everyone here in the district is that God's will will be done in one way or another.
Richard He doesn't necessarily need us, like me personally or you personally. His will will be done. He just needs one. He just needs one willing heart and mind. And if he has one, that's all he needs, because he can work with that. And we were able to witness that. And when you go to Chile or you go to Kenya, you just need one person that's willing and has the faith. And the God will work with that one person. Yeah.
Gerrit Well, thank you so much. We love you so much. We didn't even know you and we loved you then. We love you so much more now. And we look forward to remaining friends for eternity.
Richard So, when I was first called to be the president of the district, I remember having this feeling that I was going to get my popcorn and I was going to a movie and I was in the front row. And I was going to witness miracles. And that's what I feel is happening, is that I'm witnessing miracles, not because I made them happen, but because of the faith of many miracles are happening. And that's exactly what this was like, is that I have a front row seat with you to kind of witness this. It was wonderful and amazing. And the other members in our district would notice the relationship that we had, you and us and with my family and how bonded we were already. And I think they were taking it back a little bit about, you don't know these people, how is it that you're so close with them?
Richard But I think that's one of the miracles, that we've formed this bond, this eternal bond that is now going to be there forever. So that's one of the miracles.
Other Wow.
Gerrit Thank you so much. Thank you for your time.
Richard Wow. So we both are the only members in our families. We've shared with them in the past, but it's just us, at least on this side of the veil. But we're the only members in each of our families.
Gerrit That's the case for my mother. And I know that... And her whole family is Jewish. And so that was... It was something that was very different for her compared to my dad's side. But because of the goodness of the Lord and his temples, we're going to get them all.
Richard And because of the mercy of God and the temples, we're going to get them all.
Other Absolutely.
Gerrit I agree.
Richard Yeah, agreed.
Other I agree.
Richard So a big part of all of this is, of course, the love. The love that makes it all happen. Because, of course, you raise the money. They'll physically move people from Rio Gallegos. In the temple, outside the temple, just the many, many things that you did for us to show that you care and that you love us. It just demonstrates that, again, all of this happens because of the love that we have for one another.
Other Los hermanos no los recuerdan por el dinero que donaron. Los recuerdan por lo que hicieron, por quienes fueron con ellos, por la manera en que les hablaron, la manera en que los trataron, la forma cuando ustedes los acompañaron al templo, cuando ustedes estuvieron en sus ordenanzas, en sus sellamientos, ellos recuerdan eso, no el dinero, recuerdan a ustedes.
Richard The memories that the members have is not the money that was given or anything. It's the love that you showed by doing the many things that you did, the ordinances that we shared together, the time that we spent together. It's the love that we felt. That's the memory that we have of each of you.
Gerrit That's wonderful. Well, yes, quite so. Anyway, well, thank you so much. We're so grateful for the opportunity to get to know you and your wonderful family and your wonderful district.
Richard Do you remember when we were trying to find a spot for a gathering? We were trying to find a spot for a place.
Gerrit Yeah, you bet.
Richard Yeah. So there were two things that happened. The day I was changing out of my clothes to leave, I was literally changing to my street clothes to go to the airport. There was an old man, a senior missionary. He was at the first meeting we had Tuesday night. He said to me, he said, I have never witnessed what I witnessed that night. I never thought in my lifetime that I would see something like that. He told me, I imagined something like this possible, but I never thought it possible that something like this could happen. He said, are you the district president for this group? I told him yes, and he said, well, I listened to one of your gatherings there in the dining area. Before that, I kind of lost, not lost interest, but I even just lost hope in attending the temple.
Richard But because of what I witnessed and because of this, I have once again renewed my desire to get to the temple. So he wanted to say thank you for that. So this was similar to Abinadi who didn't get to see the fruits of his labor. This man who came to talk to me was kind of the Alma, that an outsider, not really a part of this whole experience, but an outsider who witnessed it and now he is going to be, he's kind of been the recipient of the love and the effort that we've put into all of this.
Richard I met a woman Thursday night who is by herself. She has no children, she has no husband. She serves in the temple every Friday and every Saturday, every week for years, and she has become very discouraged. She's very alone and she feels very discouraged that all of her service and all of her efforts, that she doesn't feel like anyone notices, anyone cares, and she's still struggling with all these same problems. And so she wasn't part of our group, but was having dinner during the testimony meeting. And so she pulled me aside out in the parking lot and she shared this with me. And it was very, very sad and very touching. And she said the biggest thing is she didn't feel like, like God was aware of her circumstance. And like, like the two of you, she's the only member in her family, none of the rest of her family.
Richard She joined the church just a couple of years ago. But because she was able to be there and hear the testimony meeting, when she found out that this group came up from Rio Gallegos, she got very emotional because her only living relative is her sister who lives in Rio Gallegos. And she felt that because we spoke a lot in that meeting about the miracles that occurred to get everybody to the temple, and she felt that it was a tender mercy of the Lord to let her know that he is aware of her and that great miracles are possible.
Richard And that's how we can make plans. We can try, but the Lord will have it his way. This is right.
Gerrit Yes. Well, thank you for the time. And Carlos, thank you so much for the two hours. I believe I blocked out 30 minutes.
Richard I'm very sorry. Totally fine. I love being a part of this.
Intro Thank you for listening to the Standard of Truth podcast, hosted by historian Dr. Gerrit Dirkmaat. If you know anybody that could benefit from the material in this episode, please share it with them. And for more resources, visit standardoftruth.com. Until next time.

Quote board

Make a share card from any line

We've been making it up for the past three years, but this year, oh boy, get ready.

RichardBanter

I was terrified. So apparently, I would not be good at playing poker. My poker face is bad.

RichardBanter

You want to make sure that you are a good steward of that money because they so faithfully donated.

RichardInsight

And to your point, the vast majority of the donations were relatively small in number and in value, but large in number because I view many of the donations as being the widow's mites that were donated.

RichardInsight

And she felt that because we spoke a lot in that meeting about the miracles that occurred to get everybody to the temple, and she felt that it was a tender mercy of the Lord to let her know that he is aware of her and that great miracles are possible.

RichardInsight

More from this episode

Claim checkThings people say, and what the episode shows.

Claim check

What critics say, and what the episode found
A small donation doesn't really make a difference.
The Lord's work depends on having the right leaders in place.
Take it to classReady to use in a lesson or a talk.

Take it to class

Ready to copy into a lesson or a text

President Roggero invited each Saint personally: the Lord would like to have you at His house because He wants you to receive a message from Him there.

Small donations given with real intent are like the widow's mite; the Saints of Rio Gallegos remember the love they were shown more than the money.

God doesn't need everyone to step up; He just needs one willing heart and mind, and He can work with that.

The temple can renew hope even for people watching from the side, like a discouraged temple worker and a senior missionary who felt it again.

Banter binThe funniest moments in this episode.

Banter bin

The running jokes, for people who skip ahead
Doctor inflationThe intro now features Dr. Gerrit Dirkmaat's friend, Dr. Richard LeDuc (0:35).
Officer RJT's mom 'pulled an Officer R' and trapped him in the car; forced listening is how they get most listeners, that and missionaries (2:26).
The live event nobody wantedGerrit never wanted to do the live event, but Dr. Richard runs the show now (3:27).
Filthy lucrePodcasting is super lucrative, so JT should consider it (4:22).
Self-esteem as a business modelListening to their mistakes makes you feel better about yourself, like throwing starfish back in the ocean (7:11, 8:15).
Gerrit's mom and Rachel's momThe audience is four people, including Gerrit's mom and Rachel's mom (11:51).
Five minutes means twenty-fiveRichard asks Carlos to tell President Roggero he may have gone over five minutes; 'maybe six' (37:20).
One of the Three NephitesAfter Richard's stories, Gerrit might think President Roggero is one of the Three Nephites (16:31).
LitnersPresident Roggero greets the 'Litners' (18:59, 19:08).
The Phebe Draper Palmer Brown MailbagSend Gerrit and Richard your question.

The Phebe Draper Palmer Brown Mailbag

Your question could be next week’s episode
Questions from Litners drive a lot of episodes. Send yours. If it makes the show, Richard reads it on air.
General ConferenceGeneral Conference talks that cite a scripture read in this episode.

In General Conference

Talks from the latest General Conference that cite a scripture this episode reads or names on air
October 2026 General Conference · cites D&C 88:73The Hour of Your Mission Is ComeBishop Sean DouglasBishop Douglas thanks missionaries of every age and urges the rising generation to place full-time missionary service high on their list.

Summaries, themes and lessons for every talk are on What Did They Say?

Go deeperWhere to read more.

Go deeper

Deep dives the episode points toward
The full story of Sweetwater Rescue and the Rio Gallegos temple trip from the previous episode, Has the Day of Miracles Ceased? (12:29).
President Nelson's teachings on the temple and on miracles through the faith of the Saints (13:38, 20:39).
Alma and the sons of Mosiah's reunion, and Abinadi never seeing what came of his testimony, as patterns for missionary work (36:12, 50:54).
SOT Litner · S4E52.