Probably the guy that I feel the worst for, and you know, I've got a soft spot in my heart is a man who was excommunicated because he was frequently falling asleep in meetings. And I feel like I can relate to him.
Standard of Truth · Season 5 · Bonus 7 · 1:01:23
Kristy's KorneЯ - D&C 89 Part 2
How a revelation given 'not by commandment or constraint' spent about ninety years becoming a temple recommend question, with Brigham Young offering medical advice along the way.
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In part one we talked about the historical context of when Joseph Smith received the Word of Wisdom. In this podcast we want to talk about its progression from 1833 till today.
Richard
Gerrit follows the Word of Wisdom from 1833 to the 2019 New Era, starting with an early Church where discipline meant you were either in or out and only drunkenness got people cut off. He reads Brigham Young's increasingly firm sermons from 1859, 1867 in Tooele and 1869 in Nephi, then traces the requirement to 1921 and the 1933 Handbook of Instructions under Heber J. Grant. He recounts the March 1833 vision of the Father and the Son in the School of the Prophets, and addresses the leg-surgery story along with Joseph Smith's journal entries on tea and beer and John Taylor's account of the wine at Carthage. He closes with Elder Uchtdorf's experience as a young soldier and his own father's death, teaching that the 'hidden treasures' of verse 19 are knowledge that Jesus Christ lives.
Who comes upJoseph SmithHyrum SmithBrigham YoungJoseph F. SmithHeber J. GrantZebedee ColtrinJohn MurdockFrederick G. WilliamsLucy Mack SmithEmma SmithJohn TaylorDieter F. Uchtdorf
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116 moments · tap a time to play from thereRichard So in part one of the Word of Wisdom, we talked a little bit about the historical context of when Joseph Smith received the Word of Wisdom. And in this podcast, we want to talk a little bit about its progression from 1833 till today.
Richard So in part one of the Word of Wisdom, we talked a little bit about the historical context of when Joseph Smith received the Word of Wisdom. And in this podcast, we want to talk a little bit about its progression from 1833 till today.
Gerrit All right. Well, I think it's first an important understand that in the early church, they didn't have the same kind of system of counsel and of punishment, for lack of a better term, that we have today. And we all have just recently seen the terminologies and the ways that church councils have changed. I mean, moving away from terminologies like excommunication to withdrawal of fellowship and things like that. But we have a lot of varied levels of response. I think one of the things would probably strike members of the church the most if they were reading their early Latter Day Saint history was how easily people got excommunicated from the church. And I mean, super easy. Probably the guy that I feel the worst for, and you know, I've got a soft spot in my heart is a man who was excommunicated because he was frequently falling asleep in meetings.
Gerrit All right. Well, I think it's first an important understand that in the early church, they didn't have the same kind of system of counsel and of punishment, for lack of a better term, that we have today. And we all have just recently seen the terminologies and the ways that church councils have changed. I mean, moving away from terminologies like excommunication to withdrawal of fellowship and things like that. But we have a lot of varied levels of response. I think one of the things would probably strike members of the church the most if they were reading their early Latter Day Saint history was how easily people got excommunicated from the church. And I mean, super easy. Probably the guy that I feel the worst for, and you know, I've got a soft spot in my heart is a man who was excommunicated because he was frequently falling asleep in meetings.
Gerrit And I feel like I can relate to him. I feel like, you know what, probably it was just not a very good lesson. I mean, come on, there's got to be a part on both sides. Now to us, that sounds ridiculously harsh. Like it sounds like, when did I join, you know, this, this, you know, repressive communist state regime? You know, I thought this was, was Jesus' church. But in the early church, they, they didn't, God hadn't revealed yet to them varied ways of dealing with sinfulness. And the church hadn't happened yet. And so the only way that they could deal with sinfulness was, you know, again, this is unrepentance of sinfulness. This is, you know, doctrine comes session 42, which, you know, if, if you look upon a woman to lust after her, you've committed adultery in your heart. And if you repent not, you'll be cast out of the church. It's not a matter of, oh, yes, back then, they believed everyone in the church had to be perfect. But if you didn't think that what you were doing was wrong and you refused to change what you were doing, well, then, you know, you, you would have your fellowship withdrawn from you.
Gerrit And I feel like I can relate to him. I feel like, you know what, probably it was just not a very good lesson. I mean, come on, there's got to be a part on both sides. Now to us, that sounds ridiculously harsh. Like it sounds like, when did I join, you know, this, this, you know, repressive communist state regime? You know, I thought this was, was Jesus' church. But in the early church, they, they didn't, God hadn't revealed yet to them varied ways of dealing with sinfulness. And the church hadn't happened yet. And so the only way that they could deal with sinfulness was, you know, again, this is unrepentance of sinfulness. This is, you know, doctrine comes session 42, which, you know, if, if you look upon a woman to lust after her, you've committed adultery in your heart. And if you repent not, you'll be cast out of the church. It's not a matter of, oh, yes, back then, they believed everyone in the church had to be perfect. But if you didn't think that what you were doing was wrong and you refused to change what you were doing, well, then, you know, you, you would have your fellowship withdrawn from you.
Gerrit Now, today, that's a much more serious thing. Because we have so many various stages, right, of, you know, just an informal counseling with your bishop to, all right, we better put this right up to the top of the stake president and, you know, and on up the line. Because they don't have that, it's both much easier to be excommunicated and much easier and faster to be readmitted into the church. Because they, you are either within the bonds of fellowship or you're without, and that's it. There is no, you know, probation. There's no disfellowship. There's just simply, you're a member, oh, you won't stop doing that, okay, you're not a member anymore. Or you stop doing that, okay, now you're a member again. I mean, I'm being a little bit too trite about it, but the reality is that the guy who, you know, just falls asleep constantly and has apparently been counseled for it, but apparently just woke up to bed on time, or his elders quorum instructor is what every elders quorum instructor has been since the church was founded.
Gerrit Now, today, that's a much more serious thing. Because we have so many various stages, right, of, you know, just an informal counseling with your bishop to, all right, we better put this right up to the top of the stake president and, you know, and on up the line. Because they don't have that, it's both much easier to be excommunicated and much easier and faster to be readmitted into the church. Because they, you are either within the bonds of fellowship or you're without, and that's it. There is no, you know, probation. There's no disfellowship. There's just simply, you're a member, oh, you won't stop doing that, okay, you're not a member anymore. Or you stop doing that, okay, now you're a member again. I mean, I'm being a little bit too trite about it, but the reality is that the guy who, you know, just falls asleep constantly and has apparently been counseled for it, but apparently just woke up to bed on time, or his elders quorum instructor is what every elders quorum instructor has been since the church was founded.
Gerrit And that's the reason why he's falling asleep. But the reality is, he's cut off for something that we would see, you know, preposterous, right? So one way that the Word of Wisdom's interpretation was different is that you could be cut off from the church for flagrant abuses of the Word of Wisdom, even in those early days. Even though it wasn't a binding commandment, there was always this sense of that drunkenness, habitual drunkenness is wrong, that drinking alcohol is acceptable, getting drunk is not. And it's that way with a lot of the things. You know, drinking a cup of tea is acceptable. Drinking tea all day long is not, right? Because they are still viewing it in this world of temperance. Temperance meaning I'm not going to indulge myself with these things the way that I normally would.
Gerrit And that's the reason why he's falling asleep. But the reality is, he's cut off for something that we would see, you know, preposterous, right? So one way that the Word of Wisdom's interpretation was different is that you could be cut off from the church for flagrant abuses of the Word of Wisdom, even in those early days. Even though it wasn't a binding commandment, there was always this sense of that drunkenness, habitual drunkenness is wrong, that drinking alcohol is acceptable, getting drunk is not. And it's that way with a lot of the things. You know, drinking a cup of tea is acceptable. Drinking tea all day long is not, right? Because they are still viewing it in this world of temperance. Temperance meaning I'm not going to indulge myself with these things the way that I normally would.
Gerrit Well, there were some people who would be cut off from the church in the early days for violating the Word of Wisdom. I mean, I don't want to speak for every, you know, stake president and bishop everywhere, but in today's church, it's pretty hard to be excommunicated for violating the Word of Wisdom. Like, it's not enough for you to have a pack of Marlboro Lights on you. I mean, you, you would, I don't want to really give people explanations for how to get excommunicated, but the reality is you would have to be trying to teach people that the Word of Wisdom isn't really a revelation from God. And even then, you'd be getting excommunicated for denying the scriptures, not because you were smoking while you did it. It's apostasy. Yeah, it's apostasy. It's not, it's not the same thing. But people could be and were cut off in the Joseph Smith era of the church for flagrant violations of the Word of Wisdom. But whenever they're doing that, it is always, at least from all the cases I'm thinking of in my mind, nearly always, let me say that because I don't want to be too blanket statement, over drunkenness.
Gerrit Well, there were some people who would be cut off from the church in the early days for violating the Word of Wisdom. I mean, I don't want to speak for every, you know, stake president and bishop everywhere, but in today's church, it's pretty hard to be excommunicated for violating the Word of Wisdom. Like, it's not enough for you to have a pack of Marlboro Lights on you. I mean, you, you would, I don't want to really give people explanations for how to get excommunicated, but the reality is you would have to be trying to teach people that the Word of Wisdom isn't really a revelation from God. And even then, you'd be getting excommunicated for denying the scriptures, not because you were smoking while you did it. It's apostasy. Yeah, it's apostasy. It's not, it's not the same thing. But people could be and were cut off in the Joseph Smith era of the church for flagrant violations of the Word of Wisdom. But whenever they're doing that, it is always, at least from all the cases I'm thinking of in my mind, nearly always, let me say that because I don't want to be too blanket statement, over drunkenness.
Gerrit That was the line, right? To drink is one thing. If you're drunk, then that's a problem. And so while they had a more lax view on the Word of Wisdom than we do today, in some ways, they actually had it harsher. In one very particular way, and that is you could face serious church discipline, which the only discipline they had was excommunication for being drunk. And now you could be re-admitted too, right? Very quickly, you'd have a year waiting period. That's all more modern. But there was that. In general, however, there was almost a regional or local reaction to the Word of Wisdom. Some people, now this is going to be hard for you to believe, but imagine a world in which some members of the church were more aggressive about certain doctrines than other members were.
Gerrit That was the line, right? To drink is one thing. If you're drunk, then that's a problem. And so while they had a more lax view on the Word of Wisdom than we do today, in some ways, they actually had it harsher. In one very particular way, and that is you could face serious church discipline, which the only discipline they had was excommunication for being drunk. And now you could be re-admitted too, right? Very quickly, you'd have a year waiting period. That's all more modern. But there was that. In general, however, there was almost a regional or local reaction to the Word of Wisdom. Some people, now this is going to be hard for you to believe, but imagine a world in which some members of the church were more aggressive about certain doctrines than other members were.
Gerrit And the ones that they picked as their favorite doctrine was the one that was the only thing they ever talked about. You know, that certainly is going on, where you have some locales of the church where they see any, they do want to see the Revelation as a kind of teetotaling document, a document where you don't ever take the substances at all. But by and large, and this is a generalization, so if you're thinking of some exceptions, yes, that's why I say by and large, the way that it's viewed is one of explanation of neither by commandment nor by constraint unless you are flagrantly and publicly violating in the sense of getting drunk, right? Smoking a pipe was not going to be enough to have any kind of disciplinary counsel in the Word of Wisdom. Now, there were others who felt far more strongly about it. Brigham Young talks about multiple times that one of the people who was the most intense about the Word of Wisdom is Hyrum Smith.
Gerrit And the ones that they picked as their favorite doctrine was the one that was the only thing they ever talked about. You know, that certainly is going on, where you have some locales of the church where they see any, they do want to see the Revelation as a kind of teetotaling document, a document where you don't ever take the substances at all. But by and large, and this is a generalization, so if you're thinking of some exceptions, yes, that's why I say by and large, the way that it's viewed is one of explanation of neither by commandment nor by constraint unless you are flagrantly and publicly violating in the sense of getting drunk, right? Smoking a pipe was not going to be enough to have any kind of disciplinary counsel in the Word of Wisdom. Now, there were others who felt far more strongly about it. Brigham Young talks about multiple times that one of the people who was the most intense about the Word of Wisdom is Hyrum Smith.
Gerrit Hyrum Smith, and we even have a sermon from Hyrum Smith that was published in the Times and Seasons where he talks very rigorously about the Word of Wisdom that this is a commandment that people need to be living. He feels very strongly about it. And Brigham Young would comment on it. Hyrum Smith could talk about the Word of Wisdom for three hours. He could, now, that's not really saying a whole lot since they could go to church when he's the last of 12, I guess, but Hyrum could at least fill a three hours of that talking about the Word of Wisdom. He felt very strongly about it. But in general, it is not a defining characteristic of the church, right? Church members still drink coffee and they drink tea. They still smoke. They don't do it in the school of the prophets, but they still smoke and they still drink alcohol. But the idea is that there's, as Joseph will say, so in 1844, Joseph Smith is going to say, there is no excuse for a man to drink and get drunk in this church, right?
Gerrit Hyrum Smith, and we even have a sermon from Hyrum Smith that was published in the Times and Seasons where he talks very rigorously about the Word of Wisdom that this is a commandment that people need to be living. He feels very strongly about it. And Brigham Young would comment on it. Hyrum Smith could talk about the Word of Wisdom for three hours. He could, now, that's not really saying a whole lot since they could go to church when he's the last of 12, I guess, but Hyrum could at least fill a three hours of that talking about the Word of Wisdom. He felt very strongly about it. But in general, it is not a defining characteristic of the church, right? Church members still drink coffee and they drink tea. They still smoke. They don't do it in the school of the prophets, but they still smoke and they still drink alcohol. But the idea is that there's, as Joseph will say, so in 1844, Joseph Smith is going to say, there is no excuse for a man to drink and get drunk in this church, right?
Gerrit That's kind of where he's at by the end of his life, is that drinking alcohol in very, in small quantities is not in and of itself the sin. Getting drunk is a big sin. And that's where it's at at the time. After the murder of Joseph Smith and after the church moves to Utah, there are more and more efforts placed in reemphasizing the spiritual purity that comes by following the Word of Wisdom. And here's an example of one of them. This is from a Brigham Young sermon, October 8th, 1859. Again, this is an unpublished one, so it's going to be kind of rough as I read it, because this is just really the shorthand notes that the scribe is taking. My counsel to the elders of Israel is to let cursed whiskey and brandy alone. I want to tell you how you look to me. Although I've been a man of the world, I've been in the same world, same as you.
Gerrit That's kind of where he's at by the end of his life, is that drinking alcohol in very, in small quantities is not in and of itself the sin. Getting drunk is a big sin. And that's where it's at at the time. After the murder of Joseph Smith and after the church moves to Utah, there are more and more efforts placed in reemphasizing the spiritual purity that comes by following the Word of Wisdom. And here's an example of one of them. This is from a Brigham Young sermon, October 8th, 1859. Again, this is an unpublished one, so it's going to be kind of rough as I read it, because this is just really the shorthand notes that the scribe is taking. My counsel to the elders of Israel is to let cursed whiskey and brandy alone. I want to tell you how you look to me. Although I've been a man of the world, I've been in the same world, same as you.
Gerrit There are scores of you that are not here but are drunk right now. And it's my positive counsel and my command. If I had all the power that the world says I have to influence you, I would not have a drunkard, a thief or a liar. If I had the power of this people that they say I have, I don't profess to have this power at all. But I'll use that language now. If I could, I would command you elders of Israel in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ to cease getting drunk. Tell your neighbors, how shall we increase? How shall we overcome? Don't you sip another drop of liquor from this time henceforth until you need it. Now, notice that even as Brigham's, that's pretty forceful language, right? But even as he's being forceful about it, what's he focusing on? Being drunk. And there's an allowance, right? You should not do this, except in cases, you know, and here he provides some of the exceptions.
Gerrit There are scores of you that are not here but are drunk right now. And it's my positive counsel and my command. If I had all the power that the world says I have to influence you, I would not have a drunkard, a thief or a liar. If I had the power of this people that they say I have, I don't profess to have this power at all. But I'll use that language now. If I could, I would command you elders of Israel in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ to cease getting drunk. Tell your neighbors, how shall we increase? How shall we overcome? Don't you sip another drop of liquor from this time henceforth until you need it. Now, notice that even as Brigham's, that's pretty forceful language, right? But even as he's being forceful about it, what's he focusing on? Being drunk. And there's an allowance, right? You should not do this, except in cases, you know, and here he provides some of the exceptions.
Gerrit Until you need it. But you say, well, you need it when we get it. I will be your physician in this thing. As long as you're able to walk and tend to your business, and you say that you need ardent spirits to keep life within you, it is a folly. The constitution that a man has within him, or a woman has, should be nourished and cherished. And whenever you or I take anything into our system to stimulate the animal far and above that is in us, it is to intrude upon the constitution that's within us. And every time we make an intrusion upon this constitution, we shorten the life of it. I'm a physician enough to know this, that when you are tired, and you think you need to take a little liquor, take a little meal bread and butter, and go to bed and rest, and not work too hard and labor so hard that you have to get half drunk to keep your spirits up. If you do that, you will be full of life and health and increase in your intelligence and joy and comfort.
Gerrit Until you need it. But you say, well, you need it when we get it. I will be your physician in this thing. As long as you're able to walk and tend to your business, and you say that you need ardent spirits to keep life within you, it is a folly. The constitution that a man has within him, or a woman has, should be nourished and cherished. And whenever you or I take anything into our system to stimulate the animal far and above that is in us, it is to intrude upon the constitution that's within us. And every time we make an intrusion upon this constitution, we shorten the life of it. I'm a physician enough to know this, that when you are tired, and you think you need to take a little liquor, take a little meal bread and butter, and go to bed and rest, and not work too hard and labor so hard that you have to get half drunk to keep your spirits up. If you do that, you will be full of life and health and increase in your intelligence and joy and comfort.
Gerrit I have further request, a little further, I've requested the high priests, the 70s, the elders, the high council, and the bishops to deal with men that will make a practice of getting drunk. And if they don't stop it, cut them off from the church. Why? Because God has no fellowship with them. Angels have none with them. Holy women that have loved ones do not have fellowship with them. And whether I am well or not, I have no fellowship with them. So you can see the real focus is on this kind of excess, this idea of drunkenness and bring them providing council in the other side. And that is, look, if you're working so hard that you have to be half plastered to be able to do it, then it's time for you to go take a nap. It's time for you, you know, which is, I think, council, that all of us could feel like, well, Brigham Young told me to take a nap. I mean, all of us would love the council of taking a nap. But you kind of get that idea. And again, notice he's not saying that we're going to cut off anyone who violates the Word of Wisdom.
Gerrit I have further request, a little further, I've requested the high priests, the 70s, the elders, the high council, and the bishops to deal with men that will make a practice of getting drunk. And if they don't stop it, cut them off from the church. Why? Because God has no fellowship with them. Angels have none with them. Holy women that have loved ones do not have fellowship with them. And whether I am well or not, I have no fellowship with them. So you can see the real focus is on this kind of excess, this idea of drunkenness and bring them providing council in the other side. And that is, look, if you're working so hard that you have to be half plastered to be able to do it, then it's time for you to go take a nap. It's time for you, you know, which is, I think, council, that all of us could feel like, well, Brigham Young told me to take a nap. I mean, all of us would love the council of taking a nap. But you kind of get that idea. And again, notice he's not saying that we're going to cut off anyone who violates the Word of Wisdom.
Gerrit What's he saying? If you have people in the 70s, the elders, the high council, bishops, if you have people that are habitually getting drunk, you're going to tell them you have to stop getting drunk. And if they refuse to stop getting drunk, well, then we're going to cut them off from the church. Brigham will, in another sermon, talk about how so many people are desperate to get back to Jackson County, how they want to get back. And in that conversation, he will say, you know, everyone's urging, go back. But let me ask you a question. Are you, I'm paraphrasing here, obviously, are you keeping the Word of Wisdom? Are you, are you still drinking alcohol? Well, yes. Or are you, is your wife still drinking tea? Well, yes. Are your boys still drinking coffee and getting drunk? Well, yes. Well, you're not ready to go back to Zion yet. So Brigham also sees the Word of Wisdom as, in a way, this kind of purifying thing. And I know we talked about this at the end of our last podcast, that in a lot of ways, the same way the Children of Israel marked their doors, Latter-day Saints mark themselves by the fact that they followed.
Gerrit What's he saying? If you have people in the 70s, the elders, the high council, bishops, if you have people that are habitually getting drunk, you're going to tell them you have to stop getting drunk. And if they refuse to stop getting drunk, well, then we're going to cut them off from the church. Brigham will, in another sermon, talk about how so many people are desperate to get back to Jackson County, how they want to get back. And in that conversation, he will say, you know, everyone's urging, go back. But let me ask you a question. Are you, I'm paraphrasing here, obviously, are you keeping the Word of Wisdom? Are you, are you still drinking alcohol? Well, yes. Or are you, is your wife still drinking tea? Well, yes. Are your boys still drinking coffee and getting drunk? Well, yes. Well, you're not ready to go back to Zion yet. So Brigham also sees the Word of Wisdom as, in a way, this kind of purifying thing. And I know we talked about this at the end of our last podcast, that in a lot of ways, the same way the Children of Israel marked their doors, Latter-day Saints mark themselves by the fact that they followed.
Gerrit Now, please don't misunderstand me. I am not saying that if you obey the Word of Wisdom, then that means you're a wonderfully righteous person and you're just the greatest person who ever lived, and someone who isn't obeying the Word of Wisdom is a horrible sinner. The reality is only Latter-day Saints have been put under covenant to follow the Word of Wisdom. So not only is someone who's not a Latter-day Saint, not a sinner because they're drinking coffee, it'd be really weird that we think they are because only we made that covenant. That would be like a Jewish person seeing me eat bacon and not just think, well, I don't do that because God commanded me not to, but think that I'm an evil person because I'm eating it, right? It wouldn't, it's kind of a non-sequitur. So I'm not saying that if you obey the Word of Wisdom, that proves that you're a wonderfully righteous person. But let me flip it around the other way. I will say that if you've made a covenant to obey the Word of Wisdom and you're not doing that, then whatever else is going on in your life, there must be something that is separating you from the love of Christ.
Gerrit Now, please don't misunderstand me. I am not saying that if you obey the Word of Wisdom, then that means you're a wonderfully righteous person and you're just the greatest person who ever lived, and someone who isn't obeying the Word of Wisdom is a horrible sinner. The reality is only Latter-day Saints have been put under covenant to follow the Word of Wisdom. So not only is someone who's not a Latter-day Saint, not a sinner because they're drinking coffee, it'd be really weird that we think they are because only we made that covenant. That would be like a Jewish person seeing me eat bacon and not just think, well, I don't do that because God commanded me not to, but think that I'm an evil person because I'm eating it, right? It wouldn't, it's kind of a non-sequitur. So I'm not saying that if you obey the Word of Wisdom, that proves that you're a wonderfully righteous person. But let me flip it around the other way. I will say that if you've made a covenant to obey the Word of Wisdom and you're not doing that, then whatever else is going on in your life, there must be something that is separating you from the love of Christ.
Gerrit Because you made the covenant to not partake of those substances, and you are. So while I don't think it's an indicator of how wonderfully righteous you might be, it certainly can be an indicator to us of whether or not we are on the right path towards our becoming like our Savior. I mean, the Word of Wisdom is one of those things that you can be, for lack of a better term, perfect at. If you ask me, have I been kind today? Well, let me go pull all my children and see what they say, right? It'll be hard for me to be very adamant about how kind I was. But I can be 100% on, did I smoke today? The answer is no, right? Did I drink alcohol today? Nope. Did I drink coffee or tea? No.
Gerrit Because you made the covenant to not partake of those substances, and you are. So while I don't think it's an indicator of how wonderfully righteous you might be, it certainly can be an indicator to us of whether or not we are on the right path towards our becoming like our Savior. I mean, the Word of Wisdom is one of those things that you can be, for lack of a better term, perfect at. If you ask me, have I been kind today? Well, let me go pull all my children and see what they say, right? It'll be hard for me to be very adamant about how kind I was. But I can be 100% on, did I smoke today? The answer is no, right? Did I drink alcohol today? Nope. Did I drink coffee or tea? No.
Gerrit And so in some ways, in a church in which so many things are left of this kind of personal introspection where, you know, am I doing what's right? That sometimes plagues so many of us trying to want to be more. The Word of Wisdom provides us at least this kind of litmus test in the sense that keeping it doesn't mean that you're righteous. But if you're a member of the church who's covenanted to keep it and you're not, then that can at least be an indicator that there's some distance between you and God because you made the covenant to keep it. And for whatever reason you're not, and so that's a good way of introspection. Let me move on to another commentary that Brigham Young will have about the Word of Wisdom. In 1867, so that first one was from 1858. I want to kind of give you this kind of progression. In 1867, Brigham Young's speaking about the Word of Wisdom, and he's gonna actually highlight something that you've all heard your whole life.
Gerrit And so in some ways, in a church in which so many things are left of this kind of personal introspection where, you know, am I doing what's right? That sometimes plagues so many of us trying to want to be more. The Word of Wisdom provides us at least this kind of litmus test in the sense that keeping it doesn't mean that you're righteous. But if you're a member of the church who's covenanted to keep it and you're not, then that can at least be an indicator that there's some distance between you and God because you made the covenant to keep it. And for whatever reason you're not, and so that's a good way of introspection. Let me move on to another commentary that Brigham Young will have about the Word of Wisdom. In 1867, so that first one was from 1858. I want to kind of give you this kind of progression. In 1867, Brigham Young's speaking about the Word of Wisdom, and he's gonna actually highlight something that you've all heard your whole life.
Gerrit In fact, in the last podcast, you were probably screaming at the podcast, which could be embarrassing depending on where you're at. You gotta kind of keep that on the down low, email me on the side. But this idea about hot drinks. Now, I am guessing that every one of you knows somebody who has at some point tried to argue that iced coffee or iced tea is fine because the Word of Wisdom says the word hot drinks. You probably also know somebody on the other side of the ledger who thinks that if you drink hot chocolate, you're also violating the Word of Wisdom. This, the ambiguity that's in the Revelation allows sometimes for people to say, well, it's iced coffee. It's not a hot drink. It doesn't say coffee. Just so you know, that that kind of a discussion is not something that is today.
Gerrit In fact, in the last podcast, you were probably screaming at the podcast, which could be embarrassing depending on where you're at. You gotta kind of keep that on the down low, email me on the side. But this idea about hot drinks. Now, I am guessing that every one of you knows somebody who has at some point tried to argue that iced coffee or iced tea is fine because the Word of Wisdom says the word hot drinks. You probably also know somebody on the other side of the ledger who thinks that if you drink hot chocolate, you're also violating the Word of Wisdom. This, the ambiguity that's in the Revelation allows sometimes for people to say, well, it's iced coffee. It's not a hot drink. It doesn't say coffee. Just so you know, that that kind of a discussion is not something that is today.
Gerrit Here's Brigham Young in 1867. This is a sermon he gave in Tooele, which is the reason why you probably never heard it before. I mean, I can't imagine in 1867, how many people were living in Tooele? Like five people, just Brigham Young and the people went there for that. I'm just kidding. If you're from Tooele, I'm sure there were more people than that there. I'm from a potato field in Idaho. There were like four people there, and then I moved out and had to change the population sign. But some of the sisters, this is Brigham, some of the sisters and some of the brethren will say, tea and coffee is not mentioned in the Word of Wisdom, but hot drinks. Already in 1867, as Brigham Young's ramping up this, we need to keep the Word of Wisdom, you already have people saying like, well, it doesn't actually say tea and coffee. So apparently, Mormons have always been Mormons. That's what I'm saying. And Brigham Young's response kind of gives you an idea of what he thinks about that. Tea and coffee is not mentioned in the Word of Wisdom, but hot drinks.
Gerrit Here's Brigham Young in 1867. This is a sermon he gave in Tooele, which is the reason why you probably never heard it before. I mean, I can't imagine in 1867, how many people were living in Tooele? Like five people, just Brigham Young and the people went there for that. I'm just kidding. If you're from Tooele, I'm sure there were more people than that there. I'm from a potato field in Idaho. There were like four people there, and then I moved out and had to change the population sign. But some of the sisters, this is Brigham, some of the sisters and some of the brethren will say, tea and coffee is not mentioned in the Word of Wisdom, but hot drinks. Already in 1867, as Brigham Young's ramping up this, we need to keep the Word of Wisdom, you already have people saying like, well, it doesn't actually say tea and coffee. So apparently, Mormons have always been Mormons. That's what I'm saying. And Brigham Young's response kind of gives you an idea of what he thinks about that. Tea and coffee is not mentioned in the Word of Wisdom, but hot drinks.
Gerrit As if this doesn't refer directly, perfectly, absolutely, definitely, and truly to that which we drank hot. What does it allude to? What do we drink? Hot tea and coffee. When we made milk porridge, it was our food. We didn't wash it down red hot the way we drank down tea. It alludes to tea and coffee, whatever we drank. I said to the Latter-day Saints at the annual conference of 6 April that the Spirit whispers to me for this spirit, this people to observe the Word of Wisdom, to let the tea and the coffee and the tobacco alone, whether they smoke or take snuff or chew, let it alone. Those that are in the habit of drinking liquor cease to drink liquor. That's pretty direct. Brigham Young is, and he's directly responding to people already in just the 30 years following the Revelation saying, well, I know people have said that it's tea and coffee, but it's not really tea and coffee because it doesn't say the word tea and coffee. And Brigham Young's make, first of all saying, excuse me, what were we drinking tea and coffee?
Gerrit As if this doesn't refer directly, perfectly, absolutely, definitely, and truly to that which we drank hot. What does it allude to? What do we drink? Hot tea and coffee. When we made milk porridge, it was our food. We didn't wash it down red hot the way we drank down tea. It alludes to tea and coffee, whatever we drank. I said to the Latter-day Saints at the annual conference of 6 April that the Spirit whispers to me for this spirit, this people to observe the Word of Wisdom, to let the tea and the coffee and the tobacco alone, whether they smoke or take snuff or chew, let it alone. Those that are in the habit of drinking liquor cease to drink liquor. That's pretty direct. Brigham Young is, and he's directly responding to people already in just the 30 years following the Revelation saying, well, I know people have said that it's tea and coffee, but it's not really tea and coffee because it doesn't say the word tea and coffee. And Brigham Young's make, first of all saying, excuse me, what were we drinking tea and coffee?
Gerrit I mean, if I were to put that into a terminology today, right, I mean, occasionally you'll have people say, well, I mean, it's iced tea, so it's fine. Well, spoiler alert, they didn't have a lot of iced tea in the 19th century. They didn't have a whole lot of ice. Iced tea is something that's really gonna come about as a thing once you actually have the ability to create ice. So you don't have a conversation about iced coffee. In fact, in the 19th century, how did you know that coffee was bad if it was allowed to get cold, right? That's how you know coffee is bad. So the idea of iced coffee doesn't exist for them. Iced anything doesn't exist for them. And iced anything won't exist for a while. I mean, yes, in the wintertime, that ice is over. But that's why you're making the coffee and the tea in the first place. And so, yeah, they aren't gonna be able to respond to those questions we have today. For instance, while they certainly have opioids in the early 19th century, I mean, you know, there's, you don't have to have a conversation about vaping in 1867.
Gerrit I mean, if I were to put that into a terminology today, right, I mean, occasionally you'll have people say, well, I mean, it's iced tea, so it's fine. Well, spoiler alert, they didn't have a lot of iced tea in the 19th century. They didn't have a whole lot of ice. Iced tea is something that's really gonna come about as a thing once you actually have the ability to create ice. So you don't have a conversation about iced coffee. In fact, in the 19th century, how did you know that coffee was bad if it was allowed to get cold, right? That's how you know coffee is bad. So the idea of iced coffee doesn't exist for them. Iced anything doesn't exist for them. And iced anything won't exist for a while. I mean, yes, in the wintertime, that ice is over. But that's why you're making the coffee and the tea in the first place. And so, yeah, they aren't gonna be able to respond to those questions we have today. For instance, while they certainly have opioids in the early 19th century, I mean, you know, there's, you don't have to have a conversation about vaping in 1867.
Gerrit So the reality is that the Word of Wisdom is an interpretive revelation that's continually being interpreted as prophets receive revelation. This is gonna still progress. Here's Brigham Young two years later in 1869 in Nephi. So apparently he's only talking in places where no one lives. Maybe that's why we don't have as much information about the Word of Wisdom. President Young said, I require all under 100 years of age to stop using tobacco and drinking whiskey. You gotta imagine there's a guy who's like 101 in the audience. He's like, doesn't matter to me. If they do not stop. So this is the key point. If they do not, we will soon make it a test of fellowship in the church. You should keep the Word of Wisdom. I have laid the benefit of this course before the saints many times. Babylon is going to fall. In the millennium, all will be filled with the knowledge of God. And then all people will keep the Word of Wisdom and they will take delight in it.
Gerrit So the reality is that the Word of Wisdom is an interpretive revelation that's continually being interpreted as prophets receive revelation. This is gonna still progress. Here's Brigham Young two years later in 1869 in Nephi. So apparently he's only talking in places where no one lives. Maybe that's why we don't have as much information about the Word of Wisdom. President Young said, I require all under 100 years of age to stop using tobacco and drinking whiskey. You gotta imagine there's a guy who's like 101 in the audience. He's like, doesn't matter to me. If they do not stop. So this is the key point. If they do not, we will soon make it a test of fellowship in the church. You should keep the Word of Wisdom. I have laid the benefit of this course before the saints many times. Babylon is going to fall. In the millennium, all will be filled with the knowledge of God. And then all people will keep the Word of Wisdom and they will take delight in it.
Gerrit Shame on the person who will not overcome all their evil appetites for the sake of the kingdom of God. Let all the saints save what they give for tobacco and whiskey and tea and coffee. And instead give that money for the immigration of the poor. There is nothing worth possessing in heaven, earth or hell, except what the gospel brings. So you can already see Brigham Young is explaining that he's already received this impression that while it's clearly not a test of fellowship yet, right now, the whole reason he's talking about in 1869 is it is not yet a requirement to be in full faith in fellowship as a member of the church. But he does say that it will become one, that this is this idea that we're progressing towards it. It's almost as if, and I don't want to put words inside of God's mouth. It's always a dangerous thing to do. But it's almost as if God gives this Latter-day Saints this period of weaning themselves off of these destructive and addictive chemicals, right?
Gerrit Shame on the person who will not overcome all their evil appetites for the sake of the kingdom of God. Let all the saints save what they give for tobacco and whiskey and tea and coffee. And instead give that money for the immigration of the poor. There is nothing worth possessing in heaven, earth or hell, except what the gospel brings. So you can already see Brigham Young is explaining that he's already received this impression that while it's clearly not a test of fellowship yet, right now, the whole reason he's talking about in 1869 is it is not yet a requirement to be in full faith in fellowship as a member of the church. But he does say that it will become one, that this is this idea that we're progressing towards it. It's almost as if, and I don't want to put words inside of God's mouth. It's always a dangerous thing to do. But it's almost as if God gives this Latter-day Saints this period of weaning themselves off of these destructive and addictive chemicals, right?
Gerrit Again, are there things worse for you than drinking coffee? Yeah, I mean, I've even heard someone say something like, well, it's like way worse for you to drink motor oil, but it doesn't say that. I'm like, who's drinking motor oil? It seems like you're going a long way to find something else. I mean, you could probably just say Coke or Pepsi. I mean, but the reality is, there are some addictive aspects of these substances, but regardless if there's substances that are more addictive, the point is to follow what it is the prophets have said, that this is God's law to us. We covenant to follow that law at our baptism, and to us, it is an abstinence document. As things progress, there is greater focus placed upon this over and over and over until by the turn of the century, there's a real movement to no longer allow people to serve in high positions in the church if they are regularly violating the Word of Wisdom.
Gerrit Again, are there things worse for you than drinking coffee? Yeah, I mean, I've even heard someone say something like, well, it's like way worse for you to drink motor oil, but it doesn't say that. I'm like, who's drinking motor oil? It seems like you're going a long way to find something else. I mean, you could probably just say Coke or Pepsi. I mean, but the reality is, there are some addictive aspects of these substances, but regardless if there's substances that are more addictive, the point is to follow what it is the prophets have said, that this is God's law to us. We covenant to follow that law at our baptism, and to us, it is an abstinence document. As things progress, there is greater focus placed upon this over and over and over until by the turn of the century, there's a real movement to no longer allow people to serve in high positions in the church if they are regularly violating the Word of Wisdom.
Gerrit Still though, exceptions are made. I mean, when Joseph F. Smith is the president of the church, he is going to make it pretty clear that, you know, members have to obey the Word of Wisdom. At the same time, I don't want to keep an old woman out of the temple who's been drinking tea for 50 years of her life. You know, that if that's the only thing keeping her out, then I still want her to go. You know, I could go through a whole load of the history surrounding it. But for our purposes, you might be wondering, well, when did it become a commandment? What you're hoping is that hopefully this is the part where he says it's not actually a commandment. No, I told you you had to listen to the whole podcast. It still is a commandment. In 1933, the Church's Handbook of Instructions is going to be very clear. Now, this is all, of course, aided by the fact that alcohol is made illegal in the United States by the 18th Amendment to the Constitution. And so, all throughout the 1920s and early 1930s, there's both a legal impetus to no longer drink, but also this, you know, century-long effort moving towards the Latter-day Saints drinking less alcohol.
Gerrit Still though, exceptions are made. I mean, when Joseph F. Smith is the president of the church, he is going to make it pretty clear that, you know, members have to obey the Word of Wisdom. At the same time, I don't want to keep an old woman out of the temple who's been drinking tea for 50 years of her life. You know, that if that's the only thing keeping her out, then I still want her to go. You know, I could go through a whole load of the history surrounding it. But for our purposes, you might be wondering, well, when did it become a commandment? What you're hoping is that hopefully this is the part where he says it's not actually a commandment. No, I told you you had to listen to the whole podcast. It still is a commandment. In 1933, the Church's Handbook of Instructions is going to be very clear. Now, this is all, of course, aided by the fact that alcohol is made illegal in the United States by the 18th Amendment to the Constitution. And so, all throughout the 1920s and early 1930s, there's both a legal impetus to no longer drink, but also this, you know, century-long effort moving towards the Latter-day Saints drinking less alcohol.
Gerrit And President Heber J. Grant is adamant about Latter-day Saints not violating the Word of Wisdom. So that Church Handbook that will come out when he's the president of the Church will say, Members desiring temple recommends should observe the law of tithing. The applicant should also observe all other principles of the gospel. That's pretty vague, but they better do that. Should keep the Word of Wisdom. Should not use profanity. It's a good thing they dropped that. Should not join nor be a member of any secret oath-bound organization and should sustain without reservation the general and local authorities of the Church. So that's what the Church's Handbook of Instructions is saying in 1933. It is, it has now become a requirement of full fellowship, keeping the Word of Wisdom. So it's going to go from neither by commandment nor by constraint to, to being talked about and urged and counseled to the saints over and over and over again, over the course of essentially 80 years, 90 years until eventually in 1921, it's going to become a requirement in 1933.
Gerrit And President Heber J. Grant is adamant about Latter-day Saints not violating the Word of Wisdom. So that Church Handbook that will come out when he's the president of the Church will say, Members desiring temple recommends should observe the law of tithing. The applicant should also observe all other principles of the gospel. That's pretty vague, but they better do that. Should keep the Word of Wisdom. Should not use profanity. It's a good thing they dropped that. Should not join nor be a member of any secret oath-bound organization and should sustain without reservation the general and local authorities of the Church. So that's what the Church's Handbook of Instructions is saying in 1933. It is, it has now become a requirement of full fellowship, keeping the Word of Wisdom. So it's going to go from neither by commandment nor by constraint to, to being talked about and urged and counseled to the saints over and over and over again, over the course of essentially 80 years, 90 years until eventually in 1921, it's going to become a requirement in 1933.
Gerrit It's going to be codified in the church handbook. And so now it's a requirement of people joining the church and it's a requirement to be in full fellowship in order to go to the temple. Now again, you know, we aren't holding a lot of excommunication hearings on the basis of someone had coffee this morning, but in order for someone to get a temple recommend, obeying the Word of Wisdom is one of those litmus tests that these questions about personal worthiness that people have to answer. And then, you know, the church regularly, I mean, very regularly, it's funny because sometimes you'll hear people say, well, the church should be a little bit more clear about the Word of Wisdom. Well, I mean, they actually provide statements on it quite a bit. You know, in August, it's of 18, I only know how to do dates in the 1800s.
Gerrit It's going to be codified in the church handbook. And so now it's a requirement of people joining the church and it's a requirement to be in full fellowship in order to go to the temple. Now again, you know, we aren't holding a lot of excommunication hearings on the basis of someone had coffee this morning, but in order for someone to get a temple recommend, obeying the Word of Wisdom is one of those litmus tests that these questions about personal worthiness that people have to answer. And then, you know, the church regularly, I mean, very regularly, it's funny because sometimes you'll hear people say, well, the church should be a little bit more clear about the Word of Wisdom. Well, I mean, they actually provide statements on it quite a bit. You know, in August, it's of 18, I only know how to do dates in the 1800s.
Gerrit In August of 2019, so I was only off by a hundred plus years. The church gives an official statement on the Word of Wisdom. The Word of Wisdom is a law of health for the physical and spiritual benefit of God's children. It includes instruction about what foods are good for us and those substances to avoid. Over time, church leaders have provided additional instruction on those things that are encouraged or forbidden by the Word of Wisdom and have taught that substances that are destructive, habit-forming or addictive should be avoided. In recent publications for church members, church leaders have clarified that several substances are prohibited by the Word of Wisdom, including vaping or e-cigarettes, green tea and coffee-based products. They have also cautioned that substances such as marijuana and opioids should only be used for medicinal purposes as prescribed by a competent physician. Now you'll probably notice the word e-cigarette is nowhere in Doctrine and Covenants, Section 89.
Gerrit In August of 2019, so I was only off by a hundred plus years. The church gives an official statement on the Word of Wisdom. The Word of Wisdom is a law of health for the physical and spiritual benefit of God's children. It includes instruction about what foods are good for us and those substances to avoid. Over time, church leaders have provided additional instruction on those things that are encouraged or forbidden by the Word of Wisdom and have taught that substances that are destructive, habit-forming or addictive should be avoided. In recent publications for church members, church leaders have clarified that several substances are prohibited by the Word of Wisdom, including vaping or e-cigarettes, green tea and coffee-based products. They have also cautioned that substances such as marijuana and opioids should only be used for medicinal purposes as prescribed by a competent physician. Now you'll probably notice the word e-cigarette is nowhere in Doctrine and Covenants, Section 89.
Gerrit And that kind of demonstrates the futility of trying to justify your position on any of these banned substances in the church by going back to the Revelation. Because the Word of Wisdom is a living document. It is something that prophets have continually received Revelation on. And so if you say, well, it doesn't say iced coffee in the Word of Wisdom, that isn't really a good argument because the Word of Wisdom is something that's being interpreted by prophetic utterance today for members to keep. It's in the new era, August 2019, where this is really broken down. The new era was primarily for the youth. That breaks down vaping, e-cigarettes, mocha, latte, macchiato, green tea, iced tea, marijuana, opioids.
Gerrit And that kind of demonstrates the futility of trying to justify your position on any of these banned substances in the church by going back to the Revelation. Because the Word of Wisdom is a living document. It is something that prophets have continually received Revelation on. And so if you say, well, it doesn't say iced coffee in the Word of Wisdom, that isn't really a good argument because the Word of Wisdom is something that's being interpreted by prophetic utterance today for members to keep. It's in the new era, August 2019, where this is really broken down. The new era was primarily for the youth. That breaks down vaping, e-cigarettes, mocha, latte, macchiato, green tea, iced tea, marijuana, opioids.
Gerrit Again, this church publication is stating that these things are violations of the Word of Wisdom. Now, the point being again, as we talked about it last time, is not that an iced coffee is somehow worse for you than eating a box of Twinkies. Frankly, one still sounds more fun than the other, but you could easily argue, well, yes, if you ate a whole box of Twinkies, that makes you, that's worse for you than the iced coffee. The difference is I didn't make a covenant to not eat a box of Twinkies. That might have been more difficult for me to get baptized otherwise at the time when I was a kid, especially if it was a Chocodile. So, the important aspect is that God has asked us to do this. You know what's really interesting about it? Is just like those children of Israel, our refusal to partake of those substances, and what's crazy about those substances, is how ubiquitous they are in the world.
Gerrit Again, this church publication is stating that these things are violations of the Word of Wisdom. Now, the point being again, as we talked about it last time, is not that an iced coffee is somehow worse for you than eating a box of Twinkies. Frankly, one still sounds more fun than the other, but you could easily argue, well, yes, if you ate a whole box of Twinkies, that makes you, that's worse for you than the iced coffee. The difference is I didn't make a covenant to not eat a box of Twinkies. That might have been more difficult for me to get baptized otherwise at the time when I was a kid, especially if it was a Chocodile. So, the important aspect is that God has asked us to do this. You know what's really interesting about it? Is just like those children of Israel, our refusal to partake of those substances, and what's crazy about those substances, is how ubiquitous they are in the world.
Gerrit And ubiquitous is that big term that historians use to mean everywhere, right? You can't find a culture that alcohol is not a part of that culture. Go ahead and try to find a place on earth where they don't drink either tea or coffee. Some places like Russia, they drink both, right? I know that very recently, I mean, within the last 30 years of world history, rates of smoking have come down. But in many areas of the world, they're still increasing, actually. I mean, the reality is, smoking is only coming down in places, in some places in Europe and in the United States. But these substances are very widely used. And Latter-day Saints, like the Israelites of old, mark themselves by the fact that they don't partake of it. Every one of you has been in a situation where someone has offered you something that's a violation of the Word of Wisdom, and you've politely declined, right?
Gerrit And ubiquitous is that big term that historians use to mean everywhere, right? You can't find a culture that alcohol is not a part of that culture. Go ahead and try to find a place on earth where they don't drink either tea or coffee. Some places like Russia, they drink both, right? I know that very recently, I mean, within the last 30 years of world history, rates of smoking have come down. But in many areas of the world, they're still increasing, actually. I mean, the reality is, smoking is only coming down in places, in some places in Europe and in the United States. But these substances are very widely used. And Latter-day Saints, like the Israelites of old, mark themselves by the fact that they don't partake of it. Every one of you has been in a situation where someone has offered you something that's a violation of the Word of Wisdom, and you've politely declined, right?
Gerrit You've said, oh, oh, oh, yeah, yeah, I can't. And if someone asks you further about it, like, oh, you know, I believe in the Word of Wisdom. And maybe you teach them all about the Word of Wisdom. I don't know. But the reality is, every one of us knows, you're traveling somewhere, right? You're not in your hometown. You're not in Utah. You're somewhere else. And you're sitting down at a table at a restaurant, and you hear the waiter come up to the people, the couple next to you at the other table. And they say, oh, would you guys like a wine list? What would you, you know, what alcoholic beverages can I get for you? And the person responds, oh, no, thanks. We don't drink alcohol. Now, your ears perk up and you think to yourself, you, you don't drink alcohol right now, or you don't drink alcohol ever. Right? Because not suddenly you're trying to look and see, well, yeah, I think she's wearing Capri pants. She probably is a Mormon. You know, you're, you're, you start to think about that. Why? Because it's this kind of marker of, of, of your faith.
Gerrit You've said, oh, oh, oh, yeah, yeah, I can't. And if someone asks you further about it, like, oh, you know, I believe in the Word of Wisdom. And maybe you teach them all about the Word of Wisdom. I don't know. But the reality is, every one of us knows, you're traveling somewhere, right? You're not in your hometown. You're not in Utah. You're somewhere else. And you're sitting down at a table at a restaurant, and you hear the waiter come up to the people, the couple next to you at the other table. And they say, oh, would you guys like a wine list? What would you, you know, what alcoholic beverages can I get for you? And the person responds, oh, no, thanks. We don't drink alcohol. Now, your ears perk up and you think to yourself, you, you don't drink alcohol right now, or you don't drink alcohol ever. Right? Because not suddenly you're trying to look and see, well, yeah, I think she's wearing Capri pants. She probably is a Mormon. You know, you're, you're, you start to think about that. Why? Because it's this kind of marker of, of, of your faith.
Gerrit Now, you know, for all you know, it's a recovering alcoholic. And that's the reason why they're not drinking. But, but the, the reality is in much the same way, the marking of the blood on the door was a marker of who is following God's prophet on earth today. Latter-day saints do the same thing with their adherence to the Word of Wisdom, this outward expression of the faith that they have. If we go back to that original receipt of the Revelation, I think it's very interesting to share Zebedee Coltrane's experience. He's one of the people that was in that School of the Prophets meeting. And remember how Brigham Young described it, that it was so filled with smoke that you couldn't even see across the room, right? They have this giant cloud of smoke essentially in this room where they're trying to meet. And that was before Joseph receives the Revelation. Well, Joseph receives the Revelation, and they apparently at least agree that they're no longer going to chew or smoke in this meeting room.
Gerrit Now, you know, for all you know, it's a recovering alcoholic. And that's the reason why they're not drinking. But, but the, the reality is in much the same way, the marking of the blood on the door was a marker of who is following God's prophet on earth today. Latter-day saints do the same thing with their adherence to the Word of Wisdom, this outward expression of the faith that they have. If we go back to that original receipt of the Revelation, I think it's very interesting to share Zebedee Coltrane's experience. He's one of the people that was in that School of the Prophets meeting. And remember how Brigham Young described it, that it was so filled with smoke that you couldn't even see across the room, right? They have this giant cloud of smoke essentially in this room where they're trying to meet. And that was before Joseph receives the Revelation. Well, Joseph receives the Revelation, and they apparently at least agree that they're no longer going to chew or smoke in this meeting room.
Gerrit And pretty shortly thereafter, in March, March 18th of 1833, Zebedee Coltrane is going to relate this powerful experience that they had. At one of these meetings after the organization of the school, he said, when we were all together, Joseph having given instructions, and while engaged in silent prayer, kneeling with our hands uplifted, each one of us praying in silence, no one whispered above his breath. A personage walked through the room from east to west, and Joseph asked if we saw him. I saw him, and I suppose that the others did as well. And Joseph answered, that is Jesus, the Son of God, our elder brother. Afterward, Joseph told us to resume our former position in prayer, which we did, another person came through. He was surrounded as with a flame of fire. I experienced a sensation that it might destroy the tabernacle, as it was a consuming fire of great brightness. The Prophet Joseph said, this is the father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Gerrit And pretty shortly thereafter, in March, March 18th of 1833, Zebedee Coltrane is going to relate this powerful experience that they had. At one of these meetings after the organization of the school, he said, when we were all together, Joseph having given instructions, and while engaged in silent prayer, kneeling with our hands uplifted, each one of us praying in silence, no one whispered above his breath. A personage walked through the room from east to west, and Joseph asked if we saw him. I saw him, and I suppose that the others did as well. And Joseph answered, that is Jesus, the Son of God, our elder brother. Afterward, Joseph told us to resume our former position in prayer, which we did, another person came through. He was surrounded as with a flame of fire. I experienced a sensation that it might destroy the tabernacle, as it was a consuming fire of great brightness. The Prophet Joseph said, this is the father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Gerrit I saw him. This appearance was so grand and so overwhelming that it seemed that I should melt down in his presence. And the sensation was so powerful that it thrilled through my whole system. And I felt it in the marrow of my bones. It's not just Zebedee Coltrane that talks about this experience where they see the father and the son. John Murdoch also records this. And what's pretty amazing, what's pretty awesome, honestly, if you're a historian as well as a believer, is the minutes of that meeting, the March 18th minutes of that meeting, Frederick Williams, Frederick Williams is keeping those minutes. And in those minutes, he records that. That Joseph promised that those faithful presence would have a heavenly vision of the Savior, and that they did. And that many of the brethren present had a vision of the Savior. And then before he gives us any details, he says, and they all have their own record of what they saw. Well, come on, Frederick, I need you to expound a little bit.
Gerrit I saw him. This appearance was so grand and so overwhelming that it seemed that I should melt down in his presence. And the sensation was so powerful that it thrilled through my whole system. And I felt it in the marrow of my bones. It's not just Zebedee Coltrane that talks about this experience where they see the father and the son. John Murdoch also records this. And what's pretty amazing, what's pretty awesome, honestly, if you're a historian as well as a believer, is the minutes of that meeting, the March 18th minutes of that meeting, Frederick Williams, Frederick Williams is keeping those minutes. And in those minutes, he records that. That Joseph promised that those faithful presence would have a heavenly vision of the Savior, and that they did. And that many of the brethren present had a vision of the Savior. And then before he gives us any details, he says, and they all have their own record of what they saw. Well, come on, Frederick, I need you to expound a little bit.
Gerrit That's the historian's dilemma. You just get a little bit of a teaser, and then they close up the book. But it's this amazing shared collective visionary experience of the Father and the Son. And how do they appear? That's what's so crazy. It's this little room. And the way Brigham described it, you couldn't see across it. And yet how did the Father and the Son appear after they began, you know, they made the sacrifice for the time they were in the School of the Prophets. They began living the Word of Wisdom, at least in that brief moment when they were in that room. And he walked through the middle of the room, the room that they couldn't see across. So there was this spiritual manifestation that happened very shortly thereafter. Now I'm guessing that at least some of you are wondering, well, wait a minute, I'm pretty sure Joseph Smith never drank alcohol because I remember that when he was a boy, you know, he needed a leg operation and he decided, you know, that he wouldn't let one drop of liquor touches.
Gerrit That's the historian's dilemma. You just get a little bit of a teaser, and then they close up the book. But it's this amazing shared collective visionary experience of the Father and the Son. And how do they appear? That's what's so crazy. It's this little room. And the way Brigham described it, you couldn't see across it. And yet how did the Father and the Son appear after they began, you know, they made the sacrifice for the time they were in the School of the Prophets. They began living the Word of Wisdom, at least in that brief moment when they were in that room. And he walked through the middle of the room, the room that they couldn't see across. So there was this spiritual manifestation that happened very shortly thereafter. Now I'm guessing that at least some of you are wondering, well, wait a minute, I'm pretty sure Joseph Smith never drank alcohol because I remember that when he was a boy, you know, he needed a leg operation and he decided, you know, that he wouldn't let one drop of liquor touches.
Richard I know in primary, that was often the thing that was cited oftentimes when we would have the Word of Wisdom lesson. The example of his leg surgery was often cited as even at a young age, Joseph abstained from alcohol.
Richard I know in primary, that was often the thing that was cited oftentimes when we would have the Word of Wisdom lesson. The example of his leg surgery was often cited as even at a young age, Joseph abstained from alcohol.
Gerrit Yeah. And, you know, that, where does that come from? Well, it comes from Lucy Mac Smith's book. In fact, if you're wondering almost everything we have from Joseph Smith's early life, if you're hearing a story about Joseph Smith's early life, if it's not in Joseph Smith history and you're reading it in the Pearl of Great Price, nine times out of ten, it's coming from Lucy Mac Smith's book that she writes in 1844 and 45. And she talks about how Joseph's leg got infected. And you know, they were going to have to break the bone out of the leg essentially. Now, that sounds horrific today, if that's what was going to happen. But she tells the story that they were going to bind him to the bedstead. But Joseph objected. When the doctor insisted that he must be confined, he decidedly said, no, doctor, I won't be bound. I can bear the process better if I'm unconfined. Then Dr. Stone said, will you drink some brandy? No, said the child, not one drop.
Gerrit Yeah. And, you know, that, where does that come from? Well, it comes from Lucy Mac Smith's book. In fact, if you're wondering almost everything we have from Joseph Smith's early life, if you're hearing a story about Joseph Smith's early life, if it's not in Joseph Smith history and you're reading it in the Pearl of Great Price, nine times out of ten, it's coming from Lucy Mac Smith's book that she writes in 1844 and 45. And she talks about how Joseph's leg got infected. And you know, they were going to have to break the bone out of the leg essentially. Now, that sounds horrific today, if that's what was going to happen. But she tells the story that they were going to bind him to the bedstead. But Joseph objected. When the doctor insisted that he must be confined, he decidedly said, no, doctor, I won't be bound. I can bear the process better if I'm unconfined. Then Dr. Stone said, will you drink some brandy? No, said the child, not one drop.
Gerrit Then the doctor said, will you take some wine? You must take something. You can never endure the severe operation which you must be subjected. No answer, the boy, I will not touch one particle of liquor, neither will I be tied down, but I will tell you what I will do. I'll have my father sit in the bed close beside me and then I will bear whatever is necessary. And, you know, this young boy, you know, rejecting that, this is, of course, Lucy Mack Smith looking back, you know, 40 years, well, 35 years later, and reflecting on it. What I don't know about this experience is what was going on through Joseph's mind. Frankly, I have a seven-year-old, and I can't get her to brush her teeth with mint toothpaste, let alone put, you know, Listerine in her mouth. If Joseph had ever tasted alcohol as a small boy, if he had ever had that in his mouth, you know, 150-proof whiskey, I can only imagine it was the worst possible thing he'd ever had in his mouth.
Gerrit Then the doctor said, will you take some wine? You must take something. You can never endure the severe operation which you must be subjected. No answer, the boy, I will not touch one particle of liquor, neither will I be tied down, but I will tell you what I will do. I'll have my father sit in the bed close beside me and then I will bear whatever is necessary. And, you know, this young boy, you know, rejecting that, this is, of course, Lucy Mack Smith looking back, you know, 40 years, well, 35 years later, and reflecting on it. What I don't know about this experience is what was going on through Joseph's mind. Frankly, I have a seven-year-old, and I can't get her to brush her teeth with mint toothpaste, let alone put, you know, Listerine in her mouth. If Joseph had ever tasted alcohol as a small boy, if he had ever had that in his mouth, you know, 150-proof whiskey, I can only imagine it was the worst possible thing he'd ever had in his mouth.
Gerrit Maybe that's why he rejected it. Maybe, you know, some have even speculated that he rejected it because he knew that doctors then and is now charged a la carte for the things they provided. And if that doctor provided the brandy, suddenly that was going to be an expensive bottle of brandy for his family. And he was thinking that way. I don't know why Joseph didn't take the alcohol when he had the surgery. But what I do know is this is not a proto understanding of the Word of Wisdom, an early understanding of the Word of Wisdom, because the reality is Joseph Smith, of course, does drink alcohol after that. And we have that in many, many places. You know, that they are going to, they talk about, you know, how we took some refreshment and our hearts were made full by the fruit of the vine, this according to the pattern of, you know, I mean, this, that obviously they're drinking alcohol. Joseph also drinks tea and coffee on occasion. It was a really cold March in 1843, and it was so cold last night as to freeze the water in the warmest rooms in the city.
Gerrit Maybe that's why he rejected it. Maybe, you know, some have even speculated that he rejected it because he knew that doctors then and is now charged a la carte for the things they provided. And if that doctor provided the brandy, suddenly that was going to be an expensive bottle of brandy for his family. And he was thinking that way. I don't know why Joseph didn't take the alcohol when he had the surgery. But what I do know is this is not a proto understanding of the Word of Wisdom, an early understanding of the Word of Wisdom, because the reality is Joseph Smith, of course, does drink alcohol after that. And we have that in many, many places. You know, that they are going to, they talk about, you know, how we took some refreshment and our hearts were made full by the fruit of the vine, this according to the pattern of, you know, I mean, this, that obviously they're drinking alcohol. Joseph also drinks tea and coffee on occasion. It was a really cold March in 1843, and it was so cold last night as to freeze the water in the warmest rooms in the city.
Gerrit So in other words, you know how people have wash basins to wash their face in the morning. It's so cold that it's actually freezing the water inside the house in those wash basins. Or in other words, any winter in southeast Idaho. I mean, it's cold, right? Obviously. Well, that same day that it's so cold, Joseph, this is recorded in his journal, Joseph comes down and said that he had tea with his breakfast, right? So it's right there in Joseph Smith's journal. This is Joseph Smith's journal, that he had tea with breakfast. And his wife asked him if it was good. And he said that if it had been a little stronger, he would have liked it better. In which Mother Granger, who's a woman who lives in the home with him, she remarked that the tea was so strong and good that I should think it would have answered for both drink and for food. I mean, Joseph's complaining a little bit that his tea's not strong enough. And Mother Granger's response is basically, Joseph, you're like eating the tea leaves at this point.
Gerrit So in other words, you know how people have wash basins to wash their face in the morning. It's so cold that it's actually freezing the water inside the house in those wash basins. Or in other words, any winter in southeast Idaho. I mean, it's cold, right? Obviously. Well, that same day that it's so cold, Joseph, this is recorded in his journal, Joseph comes down and said that he had tea with his breakfast, right? So it's right there in Joseph Smith's journal. This is Joseph Smith's journal, that he had tea with breakfast. And his wife asked him if it was good. And he said that if it had been a little stronger, he would have liked it better. In which Mother Granger, who's a woman who lives in the home with him, she remarked that the tea was so strong and good that I should think it would have answered for both drink and for food. I mean, Joseph's complaining a little bit that his tea's not strong enough. And Mother Granger's response is basically, Joseph, you're like eating the tea leaves at this point.
Gerrit There was so much tea in what I served you. But yeah, Joseph drank tea. I mean, and here in Joseph's Journal, June 1st, 1844, he writes, drank a glass of beer at Mosier's, which is a tavern in Nauvoo. These are things that many Latter-day Saints haven't heard of before, in part because our assumption has always been that the Word of Wisdom today, the way it's interpreted today, is the way it was always practiced. Even though for Joseph Smith, what he had received was, this is neither by commandment nor by constraint, and that their understanding was that it was a temporizing document. It was a document to say you shouldn't get drunk. Not that you shouldn't drink, but of course, the fact that that is the case, it is sometimes used by antagonists of the church, who will present to a Latter-day Saint, the fact that people in the early church, including Joseph Smith, drank alcohol or tea or coffee, and use that as a way of undermining someone's faith.
Gerrit There was so much tea in what I served you. But yeah, Joseph drank tea. I mean, and here in Joseph's Journal, June 1st, 1844, he writes, drank a glass of beer at Mosier's, which is a tavern in Nauvoo. These are things that many Latter-day Saints haven't heard of before, in part because our assumption has always been that the Word of Wisdom today, the way it's interpreted today, is the way it was always practiced. Even though for Joseph Smith, what he had received was, this is neither by commandment nor by constraint, and that their understanding was that it was a temporizing document. It was a document to say you shouldn't get drunk. Not that you shouldn't drink, but of course, the fact that that is the case, it is sometimes used by antagonists of the church, who will present to a Latter-day Saint, the fact that people in the early church, including Joseph Smith, drank alcohol or tea or coffee, and use that as a way of undermining someone's faith.
Gerrit You know, you can very well readily recognize, you know, the potential way of, how do you convert your Mormon friend? You know, here's the dialogue. You know, invite your Mormon friend to lunch, and when you're, you know, when you sit down to lunch, offer to buy your Mormon friend a beer. Well, your Mormon friend's gonna, you know, say no, and if they say yes, then you're already done. But if they say no, then you say, oh, well, why don't you drink? Well, your Mormon friend will tell you about the Word of Wisdom. They might tell you all about, they might even teach you a whole first discussion. When they're finally done talking, you say, well, I just don't understand why you don't drink. Cause you know, Joseph Smith drank, right? And your Mormon friend will say, he did not. And they'll get all kinds of angry and they'll say, you know, no, he didn't, he didn't. In fact, they'll tell you about the leg operation, how he never drank. And then when they're all done professing that, that slide across the table to your Mormon friend and the image from Joseph's journal where he talks about drinking the beer, where he talks about drinking tea, John Taylor's account of the martyrdom in Carthage, and then say, why is the church lying to you about this?
Gerrit You know, you can very well readily recognize, you know, the potential way of, how do you convert your Mormon friend? You know, here's the dialogue. You know, invite your Mormon friend to lunch, and when you're, you know, when you sit down to lunch, offer to buy your Mormon friend a beer. Well, your Mormon friend's gonna, you know, say no, and if they say yes, then you're already done. But if they say no, then you say, oh, well, why don't you drink? Well, your Mormon friend will tell you about the Word of Wisdom. They might tell you all about, they might even teach you a whole first discussion. When they're finally done talking, you say, well, I just don't understand why you don't drink. Cause you know, Joseph Smith drank, right? And your Mormon friend will say, he did not. And they'll get all kinds of angry and they'll say, you know, no, he didn't, he didn't. In fact, they'll tell you about the leg operation, how he never drank. And then when they're all done professing that, that slide across the table to your Mormon friend and the image from Joseph's journal where he talks about drinking the beer, where he talks about drinking tea, John Taylor's account of the martyrdom in Carthage, and then say, why is the church lying to you about this?
Gerrit What else is the church lying to you about? Again, as we talked about in earlier podcasts, there's a vast great difference between someone actively attempting to deceive and someone making an assumption that actually could be readily revised, that Joseph Smith's journals have been publicly available for decades, that they're available right now online. Anyone could read them and see whether or not he drank. But many people make an assumption that of course he didn't. Why? Because they don't. And we, as I've said before, our tendency is always to assume that the way things are right now is the way things have always been. The odd part about that is we all know that we belong to a church that believes in continuing revelation. It's one of our articles of faith. That God will yet reveal many things. And yet the moment we find out that things were different in the past, it bothers us. When the very fact of believing in continuing revelation means there are things that we are going to believe tomorrow that we don't believe today.
Gerrit What else is the church lying to you about? Again, as we talked about in earlier podcasts, there's a vast great difference between someone actively attempting to deceive and someone making an assumption that actually could be readily revised, that Joseph Smith's journals have been publicly available for decades, that they're available right now online. Anyone could read them and see whether or not he drank. But many people make an assumption that of course he didn't. Why? Because they don't. And we, as I've said before, our tendency is always to assume that the way things are right now is the way things have always been. The odd part about that is we all know that we belong to a church that believes in continuing revelation. It's one of our articles of faith. That God will yet reveal many things. And yet the moment we find out that things were different in the past, it bothers us. When the very fact of believing in continuing revelation means there are things that we are going to believe tomorrow that we don't believe today.
Gerrit That doesn't make today wrong. And it doesn't make yesterday even worse. It means that when you're led by a prophet and continuing revelation, there will always be something different. Now if you back to John Taylor's account of the martyrdom, this is usually the one that's brought up. He's one of the people with Joseph. He says sometime after dinner, we sent for some wine. This is the day Joseph's murder. And even by 1854 when John Taylor, 10 years after the fact, is writing this account, you can tell he's bothered by people attempting to make the past their present. It's been reported by some that this was taken as a sacrament. You can already see how people are attempting to make, as they're trying to talk more aggressively about how we need to keep the Word of Wisdom, there are clearly some people who know that they shared a bottle of wine, the men who were incarcerated in Carthage Jail. But they already know, yes, but we're not supposed to drink wine. So what do they do? They do the tried and true Latter-day Saint thing.
Gerrit That doesn't make today wrong. And it doesn't make yesterday even worse. It means that when you're led by a prophet and continuing revelation, there will always be something different. Now if you back to John Taylor's account of the martyrdom, this is usually the one that's brought up. He's one of the people with Joseph. He says sometime after dinner, we sent for some wine. This is the day Joseph's murder. And even by 1854 when John Taylor, 10 years after the fact, is writing this account, you can tell he's bothered by people attempting to make the past their present. It's been reported by some that this was taken as a sacrament. You can already see how people are attempting to make, as they're trying to talk more aggressively about how we need to keep the Word of Wisdom, there are clearly some people who know that they shared a bottle of wine, the men who were incarcerated in Carthage Jail. But they already know, yes, but we're not supposed to drink wine. So what do they do? They do the tried and true Latter-day Saint thing.
Gerrit They invent a reason why it must have been okay. Oh, well, yeah, they drank wine, but they drank wine because they were having the sacrament. Well, John Taylor, who was there, is actually pretty offended by this. It was no such thing, he writes. We weren't taking the sacrament, right? He goes on to say, Our spirits were generally dull and heavy, and it was sent to revive us. We all drank of the wine and gave some of it to one or two of the prison guards. We all felt unusually dull and languid with remarkable depression of spirits. Then he goes on to talk about how he sang the song of poor wayfaring men at grief. But one of the reasons why John Taylor is angry is the insinuation of someone trying to make the justification that if Joseph drank, you know, if these men, these five or six men share one bottle of wine, that there's somehow a sinfulness in that, that the only way that that could be okay was if they took it for the sacrament.
Gerrit They invent a reason why it must have been okay. Oh, well, yeah, they drank wine, but they drank wine because they were having the sacrament. Well, John Taylor, who was there, is actually pretty offended by this. It was no such thing, he writes. We weren't taking the sacrament, right? He goes on to say, Our spirits were generally dull and heavy, and it was sent to revive us. We all drank of the wine and gave some of it to one or two of the prison guards. We all felt unusually dull and languid with remarkable depression of spirits. Then he goes on to talk about how he sang the song of poor wayfaring men at grief. But one of the reasons why John Taylor is angry is the insinuation of someone trying to make the justification that if Joseph drank, you know, if these men, these five or six men share one bottle of wine, that there's somehow a sinfulness in that, that the only way that that could be okay was if they took it for the sacrament.
Gerrit Because again, in 1854, you're still using alcoholic wine for the sacrament. So you can see the people are trying to say, oh, well, that's fine. They're trying to justify by saying, much like Latter-day Saints today do when they say, I know it talks about Jesus and his disciples drinking wine in the New Testament, but of course they didn't because they wouldn't have, they only drink grape juice. Well, that's not what the text says. And maybe, I guess that's possible. I very much doubt it. And again, that's us trying to project our present onto the past, when the Word of Wisdom is a document for us and our time. One of the better talks that's given on the Word of Wisdom is by Elder then President then Elder, Uchtdorf. And it's interesting because the Word of Wisdom is an important document to him, even much more so than Latter-day Saints growing up in the United States. Of course, he grows up in Germany, which you all know, if you've heard him speak at all.
Gerrit Because again, in 1854, you're still using alcoholic wine for the sacrament. So you can see the people are trying to say, oh, well, that's fine. They're trying to justify by saying, much like Latter-day Saints today do when they say, I know it talks about Jesus and his disciples drinking wine in the New Testament, but of course they didn't because they wouldn't have, they only drink grape juice. Well, that's not what the text says. And maybe, I guess that's possible. I very much doubt it. And again, that's us trying to project our present onto the past, when the Word of Wisdom is a document for us and our time. One of the better talks that's given on the Word of Wisdom is by Elder then President then Elder, Uchtdorf. And it's interesting because the Word of Wisdom is an important document to him, even much more so than Latter-day Saints growing up in the United States. Of course, he grows up in Germany, which you all know, if you've heard him speak at all.
Gerrit And when he talks about the Word of Wisdom, he actually shares this experience from his life that actually reflects how the Word of Wisdom might have been a faith crisis for him. He grew up in Germany, okay? In the 50s, there's not lots of stakes in Germany in the 1950s and 60s. There are almost no Latter-day Saints there. And at a time in which, I mean, we are talking about a country that has an entire month that's a celebration of how much beer you can drink, right? Alcohol is as ubiquitous everywhere in that culture as it can be. Smoking at the time is everywhere, and coffee and tea are both consumed very regularly there. You can imagine that as Elder Uchtdorf, as the young Dieter is growing up, how many times he had to justify why he wasn't participating in alcohol, tobacco, coffee and tea.
Gerrit And when he talks about the Word of Wisdom, he actually shares this experience from his life that actually reflects how the Word of Wisdom might have been a faith crisis for him. He grew up in Germany, okay? In the 50s, there's not lots of stakes in Germany in the 1950s and 60s. There are almost no Latter-day Saints there. And at a time in which, I mean, we are talking about a country that has an entire month that's a celebration of how much beer you can drink, right? Alcohol is as ubiquitous everywhere in that culture as it can be. Smoking at the time is everywhere, and coffee and tea are both consumed very regularly there. You can imagine that as Elder Uchtdorf, as the young Dieter is growing up, how many times he had to justify why he wasn't participating in alcohol, tobacco, coffee and tea.
Gerrit How many times he was the odd person out when other people were doing this very social act of drinking or drinking tea or smoking. And so, when he went into the military, he tells this story of something that actually really bothered him. You can see that he had been so long marked as someone separate because he was a Mormon and because he didn't drink. He had made a real sacrifice to fall with the Word of Wisdom. But he talks about how his assumption is that when they started doing calisthenics, when they started running, that he would just, for lack of a better term, smoke the rest of these guys when they're running because he knows that they're all smoking, they're all drinking, they're not taking care of their bodies at all. And he says this, as I was running, I began to notice something that frankly troubled me. Time and again, I was being passed by men who smoked, drank, and did all manner of things that were contrary to the Gospel and in particular to the Word of Wisdom.
Gerrit How many times he was the odd person out when other people were doing this very social act of drinking or drinking tea or smoking. And so, when he went into the military, he tells this story of something that actually really bothered him. You can see that he had been so long marked as someone separate because he was a Mormon and because he didn't drink. He had made a real sacrifice to fall with the Word of Wisdom. But he talks about how his assumption is that when they started doing calisthenics, when they started running, that he would just, for lack of a better term, smoke the rest of these guys when they're running because he knows that they're all smoking, they're all drinking, they're not taking care of their bodies at all. And he says this, as I was running, I began to notice something that frankly troubled me. Time and again, I was being passed by men who smoked, drank, and did all manner of things that were contrary to the Gospel and in particular to the Word of Wisdom.
Gerrit I remember thinking, wait a minute, aren't I supposed to be able to run and not be weary? But I was weary. And I was overtaken and passed by people who were definitely not following the Word of Wisdom. I confess it troubled me at the time. I asked myself, was the promise true or was it not? It's a fascinating thing where an apostle lets you in to his mindset from when he was 19 in a very vulnerable way that it caused me a little bit of a question about my faith. Why? Because he had made an assumption that if he followed the Word of Wisdom, that would make him more physically fit and more physically capable than all of the people who weren't. And secondly, that he didn't receive an answer right away. Let me go on to continue what he says.
Gerrit I remember thinking, wait a minute, aren't I supposed to be able to run and not be weary? But I was weary. And I was overtaken and passed by people who were definitely not following the Word of Wisdom. I confess it troubled me at the time. I asked myself, was the promise true or was it not? It's a fascinating thing where an apostle lets you in to his mindset from when he was 19 in a very vulnerable way that it caused me a little bit of a question about my faith. Why? Because he had made an assumption that if he followed the Word of Wisdom, that would make him more physically fit and more physically capable than all of the people who weren't. And secondly, that he didn't receive an answer right away. Let me go on to continue what he says.
Gerrit He says the answer didn't come immediately. So again, a lot of times when we struggle, it becomes because we are assuming the way we think things should be or what we think we know. And secondly, when we ask questions about it, we want the answer instantly. We want the answer right now. We're not willing to be like Brigham Young, like we talked about in a previous podcast in Doctrine and Coven, section 76. We want the answer yesterday, and we want it definitive, and we want God to herald it with a trumpet and an angel. But here is Dieter Uchtdorf really troubled by this, and what does he say? The answer didn't come. He asked God about this promise, and instead of having the angel Moroni pop in and say, by the way, it's fine, instead he has the answer didn't come immediately. And he says, but eventually I learned that God's promises are not always fulfilled this quickly as or in the way that we might hope.
Gerrit He says the answer didn't come immediately. So again, a lot of times when we struggle, it becomes because we are assuming the way we think things should be or what we think we know. And secondly, when we ask questions about it, we want the answer instantly. We want the answer right now. We're not willing to be like Brigham Young, like we talked about in a previous podcast in Doctrine and Coven, section 76. We want the answer yesterday, and we want it definitive, and we want God to herald it with a trumpet and an angel. But here is Dieter Uchtdorf really troubled by this, and what does he say? The answer didn't come. He asked God about this promise, and instead of having the angel Moroni pop in and say, by the way, it's fine, instead he has the answer didn't come immediately. And he says, but eventually I learned that God's promises are not always fulfilled this quickly as or in the way that we might hope.
Gerrit They come according to his timing and his ways. Years later, years later, not immediately, years later, I could see clear evidence of the temporal blessings that come to those who obey the Word of Wisdom in addition to the spiritual blessings that come immediately from obedience to any of God's laws. Looking back, I know for sure that the promises of the Lord, if perhaps not always swift, are always certain. I'd like to go back to that promise. The promise is not only will you receive health in your navel and marrow in your bones, they shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures. I feel like verse 19 is the promise that I want to focus on the most. All of us know people who are ardent in living the Word of Wisdom. They are people who don't let liquor pass their lips.
Gerrit They come according to his timing and his ways. Years later, years later, not immediately, years later, I could see clear evidence of the temporal blessings that come to those who obey the Word of Wisdom in addition to the spiritual blessings that come immediately from obedience to any of God's laws. Looking back, I know for sure that the promises of the Lord, if perhaps not always swift, are always certain. I'd like to go back to that promise. The promise is not only will you receive health in your navel and marrow in your bones, they shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures. I feel like verse 19 is the promise that I want to focus on the most. All of us know people who are ardent in living the Word of Wisdom. They are people who don't let liquor pass their lips.
Gerrit They don't ever smoke. They don't ever drink coffee. And they die tragically. At young ages, of heart failure, of cancer, and it can cause people to say, wait a minute, shouldn't he have still lived? Shouldn't she have survived because she was so great at keeping the Word of Wisdom? I can think about that case with my dad. My dad died six years ago, and it was traumatic. I mean, I love my dad. My dad was an amazing man. My dad was the kind of person I wish I could be someday. And from the time of his conversion, when he was converted to the gospel, he kept the Word of Wisdom fastidiously, to the point where he would always give me a hard time that I was drinking an unnamed diet beverage of bubbly type, you know, and perhaps a cola variety.
Gerrit They don't ever smoke. They don't ever drink coffee. And they die tragically. At young ages, of heart failure, of cancer, and it can cause people to say, wait a minute, shouldn't he have still lived? Shouldn't she have survived because she was so great at keeping the Word of Wisdom? I can think about that case with my dad. My dad died six years ago, and it was traumatic. I mean, I love my dad. My dad was an amazing man. My dad was the kind of person I wish I could be someday. And from the time of his conversion, when he was converted to the gospel, he kept the Word of Wisdom fastidiously, to the point where he would always give me a hard time that I was drinking an unnamed diet beverage of bubbly type, you know, and perhaps a cola variety.
Gerrit Because for him, that was something that, you know, like many Latter-day Saints, he focused on that idea. But my dad, you know, he died of cancer, and it was terrible. It was horrific. And as we were gathered around his bedside, when the diagnosis came in, that this is likely something that's very terminal. I remember my father saying, you know, I don't want you to cry for me because I know that this is God's church, and I know that Joseph Smith's a prophet. Now, to me, that is the hidden treasure of knowledge. All of us are going to die sooner or later, tragic or peaceful, expected, unexpected, sometimes terribly unfair. But the most important knowledge, the great treasure of knowledge you can gain from this life is that Jesus Christ lives.
Gerrit Because for him, that was something that, you know, like many Latter-day Saints, he focused on that idea. But my dad, you know, he died of cancer, and it was terrible. It was horrific. And as we were gathered around his bedside, when the diagnosis came in, that this is likely something that's very terminal. I remember my father saying, you know, I don't want you to cry for me because I know that this is God's church, and I know that Joseph Smith's a prophet. Now, to me, that is the hidden treasure of knowledge. All of us are going to die sooner or later, tragic or peaceful, expected, unexpected, sometimes terribly unfair. But the most important knowledge, the great treasure of knowledge you can gain from this life is that Jesus Christ lives.
Gerrit That this is not a bedtime story. I'm going to see my father again. And how do I know that Jesus Christ lives? Because I know Joseph Smith saw him. And others saw him. Jesus lives. I feel like the testimony I've gained of the Prophet Joseph Smith, of the resurrection that I know I'll see my father and my brother again, of Jesus Christ's atonement, that Joseph was a prophet, but much of that I can attribute to the fact that I've kept the Word of Wisdom, as I've understood it, as I've tried to maintain my covenant that I made with God. One of the great treasures of knowledge that I've received, whether it be through the Word of Wisdom promise or through some other promise, is that I've had the Holy Spirit of God speak to me and tell me that these things are true, which is far more precious than anything.
Gerrit That this is not a bedtime story. I'm going to see my father again. And how do I know that Jesus Christ lives? Because I know Joseph Smith saw him. And others saw him. Jesus lives. I feel like the testimony I've gained of the Prophet Joseph Smith, of the resurrection that I know I'll see my father and my brother again, of Jesus Christ's atonement, that Joseph was a prophet, but much of that I can attribute to the fact that I've kept the Word of Wisdom, as I've understood it, as I've tried to maintain my covenant that I made with God. One of the great treasures of knowledge that I've received, whether it be through the Word of Wisdom promise or through some other promise, is that I've had the Holy Spirit of God speak to me and tell me that these things are true, which is far more precious than anything.
Gerrit Gaining that knowledge of the truth is the most important part of our existence. So I'm hopeful that as you're listening, that the takeaway you get from this is, look, I don't know how every individual wants to or feels the need to live the Word of Wisdom in certain ways. We have certain very clear things that the prophets have said we need to not partake in order to maintain our full status of fellowship in the church. Are there other things we could be doing to be more healthy? Of course there are. But hopefully while we're happy that we don't have some of the physical maladies that might accompany some of those substances, hopefully the real thing we're focusing on is like those ancient Israelites, the covenant that we've made with God, that we have decided to follow God. It might not be easy.
Gerrit Gaining that knowledge of the truth is the most important part of our existence. So I'm hopeful that as you're listening, that the takeaway you get from this is, look, I don't know how every individual wants to or feels the need to live the Word of Wisdom in certain ways. We have certain very clear things that the prophets have said we need to not partake in order to maintain our full status of fellowship in the church. Are there other things we could be doing to be more healthy? Of course there are. But hopefully while we're happy that we don't have some of the physical maladies that might accompany some of those substances, hopefully the real thing we're focusing on is like those ancient Israelites, the covenant that we've made with God, that we have decided to follow God. It might not be easy.
Gerrit It might not be acceptable. It might cause us some great deal of discomfort. But in the very act of choosing God, especially when we don't have an explanation for every reason why we come that much closer to unlocking the great treasures of knowledge of heaven. And we can receive that revelation that gives us the most important knowledge of all. I'm glad I had a chance to talk with you about the Word of Wisdom. Hopefully I didn't generate more questions than I did answers. But when it's talking about the Word of Wisdom, I know we could have spent a lot of time writing things up on the chalkboard about what can we do and what can't we do. But hopefully we recognize it for what it is. This dietary law that God has given us, that we have covenanted to follow through our baptism so that we can have these things unlocked to us.
Gerrit It might not be acceptable. It might cause us some great deal of discomfort. But in the very act of choosing God, especially when we don't have an explanation for every reason why we come that much closer to unlocking the great treasures of knowledge of heaven. And we can receive that revelation that gives us the most important knowledge of all. I'm glad I had a chance to talk with you about the Word of Wisdom. Hopefully I didn't generate more questions than I did answers. But when it's talking about the Word of Wisdom, I know we could have spent a lot of time writing things up on the chalkboard about what can we do and what can't we do. But hopefully we recognize it for what it is. This dietary law that God has given us, that we have covenanted to follow through our baptism so that we can have these things unlocked to us.
Gerrit And whether they make us ridiculously more healthy or whether they don't, it's really immaterial. What matters is do we obey? And I hope that we can take that away from this podcast. Thank you for listening to the Standard of Truth Podcast, hosted by historian Dr. Gerrit Dirkmaat and Dr. Richard LeDuc. If you know of anybody that could benefit from the material in this episode, please share it with them. Until next time.
Gerrit And whether they make us ridiculously more healthy or whether they don't, it's really immaterial. What matters is do we obey? And I hope that we can take that away from this podcast. Thank you for listening to the Standard of Truth Podcast, hosted by historian Dr. Gerrit Dirkmaat and Dr. Richard LeDuc. If you know of anybody that could benefit from the material in this episode, please share it with them. Until next time.
Quote board
Make a share card from any lineLike, it's not enough for you to have a pack of Marlboro Lights on you.
So apparently, Mormons have always been Mormons.
You gotta imagine there's a guy who's like 101 in the audience. He's like, doesn't matter to me.
in August, it's of 18, I only know how to do dates in the 1800s.
The difference is I didn't make a covenant to not eat a box of Twinkies.
the very fact of believing in continuing revelation means there are things that we are going to believe tomorrow that we don't believe today.
But the most important knowledge, the great treasure of knowledge you can gain from this life is that Jesus Christ lives.
Source shelf
22 sources cited on air · verses link to the scriptures, Joseph Smith’s documents to the Joseph Smith Papersrevelation
Doctrine and Covenants 42 (verses 23-24 identified, not cited on air)
Paraphrased: those who lust and do not repent are cast out, showing early discipline was for unrepentant sin.
sermon
Hyrum Smith, sermon on the Word of Wisdom published in the Times and Seasons
Hyrum taught it rigorously as a commandment; Brigham Young recalled he could talk about it for three hours.
sermon
Joseph Smith, 1844 statement on drunkenness
there is no excuse for a man to drink and get drunk in this church
Where Joseph landed by the end of his life: drinking in small amounts was not in itself the sin, but getting drunk was.
sermon
Brigham Young, sermon of October 8, 1859 (unpublished shorthand notes)
My counsel to the elders of Israel is to let cursed whiskey and brandy alone.
Forceful counsel focused on drunkenness, with the 'until you need it' allowance and the bread-and-butter prescription.
sermon
Brigham Young, sermon on returning to Jackson County (paraphrased on air)
Saints still drinking alcohol, tea and coffee aren't ready to go back to Zion.
sermon
Brigham Young, sermon in Tooele, 1867 (transcribed 'Tuala')
As if this doesn't refer directly, perfectly, absolutely, definitely, and truly to that which we drank hot.
Rejects the argument that 'hot drinks' doesn't mean tea and coffee.
sermon
Brigham Young, sermon in Nephi, 1869
I require all under 100 years of age to stop using tobacco and drinking whiskey.
Warns that the Word of Wisdom will soon be made a test of fellowship.
other
Joseph F. Smith
Made it clear members must obey the Word of Wisdom, yet didn't want to keep an elderly woman who drank tea out of the temple (paraphrased).
record
18th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution
Prohibition added a legal push in the 1920s and early 1930s.
book
Church Handbook of Instructions, 1933
Should keep the Word of Wisdom. Should not use profanity.
Lists keeping the Word of Wisdom among temple recommend expectations under Heber J. Grant.
record
Church official statement on the Word of Wisdom, August 2019
The Word of Wisdom is a law of health for the physical and spiritual benefit of God's children.
Clarifies that vaping, e-cigarettes, green tea and coffee-based products are prohibited, and marijuana and opioids are for prescribed medical use only.
book
New Era, August 2019
Youth magazine article listing vaping, mocha, latte, macchiato, green tea, iced tea, marijuana and opioids.
record
Zebedee Coltrin's account of the March 18, 1833 School of the Prophets meeting (transcribed 'Coltrane')
A personage walked through the room from east to west, and Joseph asked if we saw him.
Describes Jesus and then the Father passing through the room during silent prayer.
record
John Murdock's record of the same vision
A second witness to the vision of the Father and the Son.
record
School of the Prophets minutes, March 18, 1833, kept by Frederick G. Williams
Record that many present had a vision of the Savior, adding only that they all had their own record of what they saw.
book
Lucy Mack Smith's history (written 1844-45)
No, said the child, not one drop.
Source of the leg-surgery story in which young Joseph refuses brandy and wine.
journal
Joseph Smith's journal, March 1843
if it had been a little stronger, he would have liked it better.
On a bitterly cold morning Joseph had tea with breakfast and wished it were stronger.
journal
Joseph Smith's journal, June 1, 1844
drank a glass of beer at Mosier's
Records a glass of beer at a Nauvoo tavern.
scripture
Articles of Faith 1:9 (identified, not cited on air)
God will yet reveal many things.
Belief that God will yet reveal many things, which means practice will change.
record
John Taylor's account of the martyrdom, 1854
Our spirits were generally dull and heavy, and it was sent to revive us.
Records that the men in Carthage Jail sent for wine and rejects the claim it was taken as a sacrament.
sermon
Dieter F. Uchtdorf, talk on the Word of Wisdom (title not named on air)
Time and again, I was being passed by men who smoked, drank, and did all manner of things that were contrary to the Gospel and in particular to the Word of Wisdom.
His experience as a young soldier passed by smokers and drinkers, and his later conclusion that the Lord's promises are 'not always swift' but 'always certain' (54:19).
revelation
Doctrine and Covenants 89:18-19
they shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures.
Gerrit focuses on verse 19's promise of hidden treasures of knowledge.
Episode quiz
Pass to stamp your passportQuestion 1 of 7Score 0
What got one early member excommunicated, earning Gerrit's sympathy?
Fun with Numbers
This episode, counted from its transcript1:01:23long
1.6 minbefore the topic starts
22sources read or named
3scripture passages
10different years mentioned
0dollar amounts said
From 1833 to 1933
Every year mentioned in the episode. Tap one to jump to it.
Percentages said on air
Putting numbers to words
All 9,809 words of the automatic transcript, counted against a word list for each theme. It shows how much a theme comes up, not what was said about it. See the lists
Names said most
Joseph counts any Joseph.
Joseph 46Brigham Young 21Jesus Christ 10Hyrum Smith 5John Taylor 5Lucy Mack Smith 3
Signature words
Said often here and in few other episodes.
coffee 35iced 14substances 13alcohol 20drank 15fellowship 12
More from this episode
Claim checkThings people say, and what the episode shows.
Claim check
What critics say, and what the episode foundJoseph Smith never drank alcohol, as shown by his refusing brandy during his boyhood leg surgery.
The Church has been lying to members about Joseph Smith drinking tea, beer and wine.
Iced coffee and iced tea are fine because D&C 89 only says 'hot drinks.'
The wine at Carthage Jail was taken as a sacrament.
Take it to classReady to use in a lesson or a talk.
Take it to class
Ready to copy into a lesson or a textThe Word of Wisdom became a requirement gradually, from counsel in 1833 through Brigham Young's 1867 and 1869 sermons to a requirement in 1921 and the 1933 Handbook.
Joseph Smith's journal records tea in 1843 and beer in 1844, and that reflects continuing revelation, not deception; what matters is the covenant we make today.
After the elders stopped smoking in the School of the Prophets, the March 18, 1833 minutes record that many saw a vision of the Savior in that same room.
Banter binThe funniest moments in this episode.
Banter bin
The running jokes, for people who skip aheadAsleep in elders quorumThe excommunicated napper, and elders quorum instructors as they've been since the Church was founded (0:29, 3:53).
Marlboro LightsNot enough to get excommunicated today, though Gerrit won't give instructions (4:55).
Brigham Young told me to take a napCounsel we would all love (12:24).
Tooele, population fivePlus Gerrit's Idaho potato field, which had to change its population sign when he left (19:00-19:00).
Mormons have always been MormonsLoophole-hunting over 'hot drinks' already in 1867 (19:00).
The 101-year-oldExempt from Brigham's under-100 requirement (22:15).
Dates in the 1800sGerrit says August of '18 when he means 2019 (28:06).
Twinkies and ChocodilesWorse for you than iced coffee, but he made no covenant about them (31:12).
Capri pantsHow you spot the other Latter-day Saints declining the wine list (34:25).
Come on, FrederickThe historian's dilemma when the minutes say 'they all have their own record' and stop (37:36).
How to convert your Mormon friendThe beer-at-lunch gotcha, acted out (44:39).
An unnamed diet beverage of bubbly typeWhat Gerrit's dad teased him for drinking (55:21).
The Phebe Draper Palmer Brown MailbagSend Gerrit and Richard your question.
The Phebe Draper Palmer Brown Mailbag
Your question could be next week’s episodeQuestions from Litners drive a lot of episodes. Send yours. If it makes the show, Richard reads it on air.
Go deeperWhere to read more.
Go deeper
Deep dives the episode points towardThe March 18, 1833 School of the Prophets vision: Zebedee Coltrin, John Murdock and the Frederick G. Williams minutes side by side.
Hyrum Smith's Times and Seasons sermon and the early 'more aggressive' strands of Word of Wisdom observance.
From 1921 to the 1933 Handbook: Heber J. Grant, Prohibition and the making of a temple recommend requirement.
John Taylor's 1854 account of Carthage, including the wine and 'A Poor Wayfaring Man of Grief.'
SOT Litner · S5B7.